Comment at end
7th September, 2009
Is THIS normal? Did France do this kind of thing with the stars and stripes when Obama/Bush/Kennedy visited Paris ?
Do they wrap the Eiffel Tower in the Union Flag when the British Queen visits?
PLEASE SOMEONE TELL ME THEY DID AND DO …
… BECAUSE I DON’T RECALL IT EVER HAPPENING BEFORE.
I am personally ambivalent about Turkey joining the EU. I see the value in principle, but a lot of ideas have value in principle. It’s only in the practice where they fall down. And those repercussions may not be seen for many years.
But lighting the Eiffel Tower in Islamic red and sticking the Islamic star and crescent right on the front!!?? Is this absolutely necessary?
I will rest FAR easier on this once I am assured that this kind of ‘desecration’ of France’s landmark is their usual mode of welcome to outsiders such as their western allies.
AND when I am convinced that Turkey’s entry into the EU is necessarily of itself a good thing.
As a British pro-European I am yet to be fully persuaded.
Until that day, THIS takes the Islamic biscuit.
Fix this picture in your mind’s eye. You may be seeing the future.
Thanks, I think, to Creeping Sharia and Europe News excerpts from whose article follows below:
Launched on June 30 at the Ministry of Culture and Communication in the presence of Frédéric Mitterand and Ertugrul Günay, ministers of Culture of France and Turkey respectively, La Saison de la Turquie is off and running. A foretaste of what France is predictably in store for if the actual accession of Turkey to the European Union becomes reality. How else can we explain the profusion of grandiose programs dedicated to Turkish culture, if not as an overt acquiescence to Turkish membership?
And it is on the occasion of this celebration of Turkey that the Eiffel Tower will be lit up with the colors of the Turkish flag in October. That’s right. The Eiffel Tower will be adorned with the white star and crescent on a red background. Turkey will have, in fact, one foot in Europe. And the mayor of Paris will roll out the red carpet. Frédéric Mitterand, Minister of Culture, acknowledges this and has given his blessing to such a sacrilege.
The question of Turkey’s accession to the EU has not been decided. However, that of Turkey in France is off to a good start: until March 31, 2010, no fewer than 400 cultural events are programmed, under the aegis of the Foreign Ministry and the French and Turkish Ministries of Culture.
[...]
However, some voices can be heard here and there in protest against the desecration of the Eiffel Tower by Islamo-Turkish symbols. First, an action from SITA, that we urge you to participate in. Second, there is the initiative by Armenian militants who have also launched their own campaign “against the colors of the Turkish flag on the Eiffel Tower.”
At this point the author provides a link to a French-language Armenian website, Armennews, that has posted a sample letter to the mayor of Paris. Those French readers who are interested can copy the letter, or write one of their own. The middle section of the letter reads:
(…) In truth, Turkey denies its responsibility in the perpetration and execution of several crimes against humanity – the Armenian Genocide (1,500,000 deaths), the Aramaean Genocide (1,000,000 deaths), the Greek Genocide (500,000 deaths), and the Assyro-Chaldean Genocide (250,000 deaths) – and adapts its foreign policy through negationist rhetoric on a planetary scale and through threats of diplomatic and economic reprisals against any State that debates the issue of recognition of one of these genocides. Moreover, Turkey refuses to recognize Cyprus, a member State of the EU that has been occupied by Turkey since 1974, in flagrant violation of International Law. Finally, I cannot hide from you the fact that the illumination in the colors of the Turkish flag of the most symbolic of all French monuments has aroused strong reactions both in France and abroad. (…)
Note: The Aramaean Genocide, also called the Assyrian Genocide, is a complicated story unto itself. Wikipedia has this page of information, but the topic warrants much research. The Assyro-Chaldean Genocide, referred to in the letter above, does not appear to be separate from the larger topic of the Assyrian Genocide, except possibly from a geographical point of view. Time does not permit me to research these important points right now. Here is another Wikipedia page on Genocides In History, where the definition of what actually constitutes a genocide is discussed, though the question is hardly resolved.
Finally, it’s interesting to note that even though Serge Sarkisian, president of Armenia, insists on the importance of Turkish recognition of the genocide, he is realistic enough to acknowledge that it may not happen:
“(…) We say, yes, there was a genocide and it matters very little whether or not Turkey admits it. It is a fact recognized by all the experts on genocide in the world; it is recognized by many countries throughout the world.”
Tags: Eiffel Tower, EU, France, islamisation of Europe, Sarkozy, star and crescent on Eiffel Tower, Turkey
September 7, 2009 at 1:49 pm |
The debate about Turkey’s possible EU entry is a delicate thing.
On the one hand we have to be careful that the country doesn’t turn into an Islamic Republic (not that favourable at the door of the European Union,huh?) but on the other hand the European Union is based on several key principles such as human rights. If the European Union is to include a member state which isn’t totally committed to these principles and values it runs the danger of jeopardising it’s legitimacy and credibilty.
In respect to France and the Eiffel Tower:That’s completely over the top!
September 7, 2009 at 2:12 pm |
Exactly MY concerns, Julie over Turkey’s entry. I can see why Tony Blair thinks it would be a good thing – and he does- or did when he said anything about it – as it seems does the French government. Turkey is a gateway and half European/ half Asian. But my larger concern here is that we are rolling out the red carpet or lighting up the red lights to an Islamic state, as though they are MORE deserving that long-time western allies.
I do NOT approve of that. Not one bit.
The thinking may be strategic – it is certainly strategically placed. And this kind of welcome and Turkey’s eventual inclusion in the EU might irritate such as Iran more than it displeases some of us EU citizens already in the fold.
Wikipedia on Turkey:
Turkey (Turkish: Türkiye), known officially as the Republic of Turkey (Tur-Türkiye_Cumhuriyeti.ogg Türkiye Cumhuriyeti (help·info)), is a Eurasian country that stretches across the Anatolian peninsula in western Asia and Thrace (Rumelia) in the Balkan region of southeastern Europe. Turkey is bordered by eight countries: Bulgaria to the northwest; Greece to the west; Georgia to the northeast; Armenia, Azerbaijan (the exclave of Nakhichevan) and Iran to the east; and Iraq and Syria to the southeast. The Mediterranean Sea and Cyprus are to the south; the Aegean Sea to the west; and the Black Sea is to the north. Separating Anatolia and Thrace are the Sea of Marmara and the Turkish Straits (the Bosporus and the Dardanelles), which are commonly reckoned to delineate the boundary between Europe and Asia, thereby making Turkey transcontinental.[4]
Turkey is the successor state to the Ottoman Empire,[5] a major historical power which lasted for more than six centuries on three continents, controlling most of Southeastern Europe, the Middle East and North Africa. As a result of its location astride Europe and Asia, Turkey has come to acquire increasing strategic significance.[6][7] Turks are the largest ethnic group with minorities of Kurds. Islam is the predominant religion, and the official language is the Turkish language.
Turkey is a democratic, secular, unitary, constitutional republic whose political system was established in 1923 under the leadership of Mustafa Kemal Atatürk, following the fall of the Ottoman Empire in the aftermath of World War I. Since then, Turkey has become increasingly integrated with the West through membership in organizations such as the Council of Europe, NATO, OECD, OSCE and the G-20 major economies. Turkey began full membership negotiations with the European Union in 2005, having been an associate member of the EEC since 1963, and having reached a customs union agreement in 1995. Meanwhile, Turkey has continued to foster close cultural, political, economic and industrial relations with the Eastern world, particularly with the states of the Middle East and Central Asia, through membership in organizations such as the OIC and ECO. Turkey is classified as a developed country[8] by the CIA and as a regional power[9][10] by political scientists and economists worldwide.
September 7, 2009 at 5:22 pm |
Personally I think the Eiffel looks like a vision of pure Hell in this picture. I have Persian friends who have moved to the states from Turkey because it was getting too dangerous to be a Christian. So, I don’t know how much Turkey has identified with Europe. Let us hope the one theory is correct; that France and Europe are trying to win Turkey away from the radical Islamist states. Think it can be done? Hmmm…………
One can only hope.
September 7, 2009 at 6:10 pm |
Not all that convinced, Arlene. It seems I have to have faith in Mr Blair, if he becomes EU President. He used to call on support for Turkey’s entry into the EU. I assume he still wants the same.
I DO wish he would talk about politics rather than religion. Politics impinges on ALL of us.
September 7, 2009 at 5:59 pm |
In 1962-65 I spent three years in Turkey with the US Army, sitting on a mountaintop outside of Ankara monitoring Russian radio traffic and other transmissions. During that time I witnessed an attempted coup by some military officers from the military academy. This was brutally put down and the instigators were hung in the main square in Ankara as a message to others. The Turkish Army is the most trusted and loved organization in Turkey and, by order of Mustaffa Kamal, tasked with keeping the country as a secular state. While Turkey has grown more modern in the ensuing years, they were still running camel caravans from village to village, and were not, at that time, particularly friendly to Americans. I taught English to many of the Turks in my off duty hours and made many friendships. But it would not be first on my list of places to revisit.
September 7, 2009 at 6:11 pm |
I am actually going to Turkey for the first time in a month or so. So, I’ll let you know what I think when I get back.
September 7, 2009 at 7:19 pm |
My dad has been to Istanbul recently and he actually liked it.
The thing is that the hard-working Turks are living,working and STAYING in Turkey while the freeloaders are coming over and seek asylum (including all benefits of our welfare system).
He also mentioned that how the Turks live and behave really depends on the region or even the district of a city.There are parts of Istanbul where you see women in short skirts and no headscraves at all but also areas where strict Muslim tradition seems to dominate the daily life.
Turkey is an ambivalent country,caught up between the Western and Islamic world. I don’t really see at the moment how Turkey could become a full member of the EU. Even though I’d prefer a Turkey under some “control” WITHIN the Union than a Turkey out of control OUTSIDE the Union and WITHIN the Islamic world, I am still thinking that it is essential to uphold the fundamental ideas,principles,rights,values what you like of the European Union.
Article 21 of the EU Treaty says:
The Union’s action on the international scene shall be guided by the principles which have inspired its own creation,development and enlargment,and which seeks to advance in the wider world:DEMOCRACY, THE RULE OF LAW, THE UNIVERSALITY AND INDIVISIBILITY OF HUMAN RIGHTS AND FUNDAMENTAL FREEDOMS, RESPECT FOR HUMAN DIGNITY,THE PRINCIPLES OF EQUALITY AND SOLIDARITY,AND RESPECT FOR THE PRINCIPLES OF THE UNITED NATIONS CHARTER AND INTERNATIONAL LAW.
Well I think there are A LOT of open questions re Turkey and these KEY PRINCIPLES.
September 7, 2009 at 10:18 pm |
The freeloaders, Julie, to use your euphemism, get EVERYWHERE in the FREE WEST. If they are already loading into Turkey that is another big problem for the EU. How and when we are going to firm up our borders AND alter the Human Rights Act to ONLY safeguard the rights of real humans and not such as the animals who have been convicted today in London, who knows!?
Perhaps the new soon-to-be EU president.
;0)
September 7, 2009 at 10:18 pm |
The freeloaders, Julie, to use your euphemism, get EVERYWHERE in the FREE WEST. If they are already loading into Turkey that is another big problem for the EU. How and when we are going to firm up our borders AND alter the Human Rights Act to ONLY safeguard the rights of real humans and not such as the animals who have been convicted today in London, who knows!?
Perhaps the new soon-to-be EU president.
;0)
September 8, 2009 at 6:58 pm |
I thought Sarkozy is against the accession of Turkey to the EU?! In 2007 he said: “enlarging Europe with no limit risks destroying European political union, and that I do not accept…I want to say that Europe must give itself borders, that not all countries have a vocation to become members of Europe, beginning with Turkey which has no place inside the European Union.” That was one of the highlights of his bit for presidency. So, what on earth does this mean?
Personally, I’d rather have Turkey remain part of West Asia (Middle East as known to the west, i believe). Well, Turkey becoming a full-pledged member of the EU is still very far, imho. They still have a long way to go re the acquis chapters. And all member states have to unanimously agree. Ang I think that Austria at least will be against this. And if Geert Wilders and PVV will have it their way, so is the Netherlands.
September 8, 2009 at 7:21 pm |
Yes, I’d forgotten that, Caela. He DID say that didn’t he. Here’s a link:
http://www.jewishpolicycenter.org/96/sarkozys-policy-on-turkeys-eu-accession-bad-for
Perhaps something, or someone, has made him change his mind.
The plot thickens.
January 11, 2010 at 3:37 pm |
First of all, i would like to correct a misleading information given in the first post; there is no such thing as “Islamic Red”, the symbolic color of Islam is green. Another wrong info is that there is no “Islamic Star”, it’s the crescent that represents Islam (Red sybolises the blood of the dead Turkish people who fought in the war of indipendence). As you may have guessed, i’m Turkish and i thought i too, would post my comment about this issue.
First of all, i think i should make it clear that i’m not a radical Muslim nor i support the existing government. Actually, many “educated” people agree that the existing government is American controlled. Though i sincerely love my country. Turkey is not a European country, that’s certain, but it’s not an Asian country either. Do a little research and you will se that these lands(Anatolia-Rumeli) never belonged to any part of the world for that matter. Though i think that Turkey would’ve been a helpful member to the EU, much more heplful than, say, Romania, or Greece. Don’t get me wrong, i’m not hostile to Greece unlike you may think, but it’s a fact that we could give more… Most importantly, our military help would be huge…
About the people, as Julie said, people change with the districts. I live in Istanbul and i experience it everyday. There are radical districts, cities, and there are, well western districts. Apart from the extremists(who you find everywhere in the world…), there’s one simple formula to be treated good in Turkey; respect the people and smile and surely you will get a smile in return. Turkish people are not evil or bad, they are under a lot of pressure, trying to make a living out of nothing, thus angry…
January 11, 2010 at 11:19 pm |
Hi Burak,
Thanks for your comment. According to Wikipedia red is also used in Islam:
* The Umayyads fought under white banners
* The Abbasids chose black
* The Fatimids used a Green standard, as well as White with gold inlay.
* Various countries on the Persian Gulf have chosen red flags
These four colors, white, black, green and red, dominate the flags of Arab states.
While the color red has no special significance in Islam, it is commonly used on the flags of Muslim countries. Also, the Red Crescent is the Muslim equivalent of the Red Cross.
I visited Turkey recently fo the first time. Very nice, apart from the mosquito bites and the other half slipping TWICE! Still, the medical people were great!
On the whole I agree with you. Turkey SHOULD join the EU, despite my doubts, given moderate leadership in Turkey and sensible leadership in the EU.
Don’t know about the first, but as for the second, well, we’ve got the WRONG President for that. But then I would say that, wouldn’t I?