PRESS SHOCK NEWS 1 – Poll on Tony Blair … “liar & war criminal”

by
  • Original Home Page
  • All Contents of Site – Index
  • All Links to ‘The Trial of Tony Blair’ posts
  • Sign the Ban Blair-baiting petition here. A recent sig comment: Media combine with anti-war: see how biased coverage of Campbell testimony was.”
  • Comment at end

    UPDATE 21st January: Proof – POLL: Yes, 77% do NOT think Tony Blair should be tried for “war crimes”

    17th January 2010

    POLL: 77% – REPEAT 77% – SAY TONY BLAIR TOLD THE TRUTH TO PARLIAMENT OVER IRAQ

    So – what was that again? Oh yes, more than three-quarters polled think Tony Blair told the truth to parliament over Iraq.  In other words the HUGE majority think he DID NOT LIE.

    Did you read that headline anywhere this morning? Did the Sunday morning news bulletins lead with it?

    Why am I asking these rhetorical questions? The answer’s obvious. Is the Pope a catholic? Is Tony Blair a war criminal?

    THE PRESS WE DESERVE

    We the British people are being taken for mugs.  Perhaps we deserve it. We get the press we deserve. The politicians we deserve would rather just keep out of the firing line.

    If you don’t accept it’s the press sweetheart, see this news item from APUK – read today’s press reports on this.

    Article headline at APUK – Blair ‘should face war charges’. (Note the use of the quote marks.

    Article leading point:

    “Almost a quarter of voters (23%) believe Tony Blair deliberately misled MPs over the Iraq war and should face war crimes charges, an opinion poll has found.”

    What? Dearie me. What about a mention for the MAJORITY – the 77% who disagree?

    Admittedly, apart from the above  – (the perverted presented LEADING element) –  none of this Sunday Times YouGov poll is actually GOOD news for Mr Blair. (When I find it at The Times, I’ll link to it here. Update: here’s the poll. See pgs 4 &5.)

    But the above 77% IS reasonably good news, though 100% would have been better. And the 77% is not even mentioned.

    The latest ‘AFP’ report on this story has this headline: “Almost one in four Britons back Blair war crimes trial: poll”

    So where does it point out that MORE THAN 3 IN FOUR DON’T?

    DISTORTED, BIASED REPORTING

    The 77% if this were fair reporting, would have been highlighted. Especially since it is the “lying” tag even more than the “illegal war” accusation that has been hung around Blair’s neck since March 2003.  It’s reminiscent of the “Welsh Not” (a punishment to prevent the use of the Welsh language in Wales in the 19th century.)  As far as the British press is concerned Tony Blair has literally NO Choice but to wear that “lying” tag for the rest of his life.

    It seems that “Most people also think the former PM, who is due to give evidence to the official inquiry into the war within weeks, knew Saddam Hussein had no weapons of mass destruction.” Just over two thirds accept that The YouGov survey for the Sunday Times found less than a third (32%) accepted that Mr Blair “genuinely believed in the threat” which he used to publicly justify sending UK troops, while 52% thought he had “deliberately misled” the country.

    As John Rentoul puts it – “People believe what they read in the papers shock”

    YouGov interviewed a representative sample of 2,033 voters, online across Britain, on January 14-15.

    Read whole report at APUK here


    RELATED

    Mind Control – wikipedia

    My thoughts on mind control: It’s all in the editing and the headline.

    Perhaps it is not just politicians who can be accused of “mind control”. It is now clearly being used by the press.  Perhaps in revenge for their widespread belief or more likely dissembling excuse that their minds too were at one time controlled by spin doctors and government.  Now they use the same methods that they accuse others of having used.  Out-spinning the spinners. And as with their own alleged “brainwashing” they expect us not to notice. Thus the edited cherry picked reports of the Iraq Inquiry.

    By the way – on the Iraq Inquiry – did you notice that General Reith’s evidence was given hardly any coverage by the press? If you did notice, do you wonder why?

    Simply because he criticised the press.

    From the start of the Iraq campaign the British press, he contends, took a position against the British involvement.

    More on that later.




    Free Hit Counter


    Advertisements

    Tags: , , , , , , , , ,

    46 Responses to “PRESS SHOCK NEWS 1 – Poll on Tony Blair … “liar & war criminal””

    1. PRESS SHOCK NEWS 2 – Reith at Iraq Inquiry … “press made up minds BEFORE we went into Iraq” « Tony Blair Says:

      […] Tony Blair « PRESS SHOCK NEWS 1 – Poll on Tony Blair … “liar & war criminal” […]

    2. Lee Says:

      How absurd – you complain about biased reporting then tell an out and out lie, that 77% think he told the truth. Just because 23% think he lied to Parliament AND should be charged as a war criminal for it DOES NOT MEAN that the other 77% think he is telling the truth.

      Read your own citations, in fact ONLY 32% think he genuinely believed in the threat.

      It is very telling that in order to present a defence of Tony Blair, you have to make up an almighty whopper of a lie.

      • keeptonyblairforpm Says:

        Excuse me Lee?

        Pardon? Educate us all please with your enlightened understanding of this result. What exactly does it indicate that the 77% thought? If the options were Yes/No, what did those who said “no” really mean, oh wondrous mind-reader?

        Thank you SO much for making my point for me on the utter STUPIDITY of Blair haters.

        I have a had a good look around the internet but I cannot find this poll anywhere. Not at YouGov nor at The Times. Perhaps it was TOO embarrassing to leave online! Perhaps you can do better than me, find it and send me the link.

        But since there was NO reference to a “don’t know” option intelligent people can assume that it was Yes/No answer options.

        At a guess I’d suggest the question was probably put this way:

        Q:Do you think Tony Blair lied to parliament over the Iraq invasion?
        A: Yes/No.

        If it was put in this way there is an automatic likelihood that quite a lot of minds would be influenced by the inference in the quesion – (that he lied). So, more people would vote “YES” because it invites “YES”. So the 23% might even be an exaggerated picture of the true numbers thinking he lied.

        Whether it is an exaggerated response or not , it clearly means that 77% believe the opposite. As I mentioned many polls frequently give a “don’t know” option. In this one “don’t know” was not even mentioned. You can bet it wasn’t offered. The expectation was that the numbers would have been the other way round – 77% – yes he lied, 23% – no he didn’t. (Why, the commissioning organisation might have thought – why worry their little heads with a third option, and possibly dilute the black and white answers? Better to give them – ‘yes or no’ only. The commissioning agent – The Times – doesn’t seem to have got the answer it expected/required.)

        The result evidently flummoxed the Times’s BIG STORY – BLAIR LIED!”.

        Answer me this, Lee and try to be honest with yourelf: if this opinion poll had said that 77% think Blair lied would you have rushed to opine that the other 23% did not necessarily think he hadn’t lied? Would that have been fair or reasonable? Would you even have bothered to try to chase around for this fallacious argument to grasp onto for comfort? Of course not, because the 77% would have made your point for you.

        DITTO ME.

        I do not disparage the 23%. That is their (minority) opinion.

        You, if you really believe that the majority opinion – 77% – proves nothing, are a fool.

    3. Lee Says:

      I do not know if you are merely pretending to be an idiot for the sake of argument – but it is not 23% that think he lied.

      “A YouGov poll for The Sunday Times this weekend shows that 52% of people believe Blair deliberately misled the country over the war. Almost one in four — 23% — think he should be tried as a war criminal.”

      It is 23% that think he lied AND should stand trial for war crimes because of it. Get it?

      Nor is it 77% that did not think he lied. Read your own source:

      “The YouGov survey for the Sunday Times found less than a third (32%) accepted that Mr Blair “genuinely believed in the threat” which he used to publicly justify sending UK troops, while 52% thought he had “deliberately misled” the country.”

      32% is not 77%, it is 32%.

      This is elementary and would take vasts amount of spin and deception to try to deny this. But being a Blair supporter, you tried nonetheless.

      Given that YOU assert that believing the majority opinion means nothing makes a fool of you – and only 32% believe he told the truth – then by your own standards, you are a fool.

      • keeptonyblairforpm Says:

        Lee – I DO know that you are not pretending to be an idiot. No pretence necessary.

        There are, as I read it, three poll results referred to as far as Blair is concerned, and the papers have picked the juicy bits from all three, mixed them up and used them to back up their own opinions. It is clearly disingenuous press manipulation.

        As I mentioned – I have not seen the actual poll(s) yet. Have you? But it is clear that there was more than ONE question asked. I concentrated on the headline centred around ONE question, (or possibly TWO or even THREE) that the papers chose (for their own reasons.)

        The source has seemingly merged at least two questions for their headline. The ‘he lied’ and the ‘should he face war crimes charges.’ Unless of course the question was:

        “Did Tony Blair lie and if so should he face war crime charges”.

        If that was the question, it is even MORE of a leading question! But the choice proved too much for most, it would seem. Since the poll itself, if that was the wording was trying to manipulate opinion, and since ALL politicians are liars, don’t you know, and since most people admit in polls to be willing to lie at work or at play, most people baulked at the idea of trying Tony Blair for “war crimes” for “lying”. Thus even if only 32% accepted that he genuinely believed in the threat (the 3rd or 2nd question), still 77% did not want him to be tried for war crimes (the 2nd or 1st question.)

        We are all liars in this wicked world, might have been their conclusion.

        Until we see the poll, it’s hard to be sure about any of this. And a “war crimes” trial for removing a war criminal? Do you think we are morally bankrupt, the respondents may have wondered?

        To try to cast a little light on this poll’s opaque interpretation – here is the whole article I used – with the different questions/answers highlighted:

        Almost a quarter of voters (23%) believe Tony Blair deliberately misled MPs over the Iraq war and should face war crimes charges, an opinion poll has found.

        Most people also think the former PM, who is due to give evidence to the official inquiry into the war within weeks, knew Saddam Hussein had no weapons of mass destruction.

        The YouGov survey for the Sunday Times found less than a third (32%) accepted that Mr Blair “genuinely believed in the threat” which he used to publicly justify sending UK troops, while 52% thought he had “deliberately misled” the country.

        And by a similar margin (49% to 31%), they also said they believed his former communications director Alastair Campbell was not truthful when he gave evidence to Sir John Chilcot’s inquiry this week.

        Mr Campbell told the inquiry that he defended “every single word” of the 2002 dossier on Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction used to justify the war and denied beefing it up.

        Mr Blair will give a full day of evidence to the inquiry into the war at some point in the fortnight between January 25 and February 5.

        Because of overwhelming interest from the public, in particular families of troops killed in the conflict, places at the session are to be awarded by ballot.

        YouGov interviewed a representative sample of 2,033 voters, online across Britain, on January 14 and 15.

        You can see that I was referring to the first section – about ‘whether or not Blair LIED to parliament AND should face war crimes charges’.

        There was also a question about whether or not Blair “believed there was a genuine threat”. And one on whether he had “misled the country. Three questions? Find the actual poll and we’ll check.

        And a section, to which I have made no reference, about Alastair Campbell – truthful or not at the Chilcot Inquiry last week.

        As I said I was concentrating on the first of these, because the press did. They would have been better advised to have concentrated on the second, but cearly their agenda was to try to get the best they could from a poor result – the “B.Liar” story. It backfired for them. Thus the press haven’t been able to make it a big issue.

        In the usual goalpost moving mode of people who can’t face the facts, you have tried in this comment to meld two poll questions results into one.

        The reference to his believing the threat is only 32%, that’s true, but that still does not mean that 32% think he lied. Only 23% think he lied. Read the source again, and take more care this time. They are different questions.

        You may think it odd that these two numbers do not marry up. But that is no reason for trying to pretend that they are the same question. They are not the same question.

        I stand by my interpretation that if 23% think he did lie and should face war crimes charges, that means 77% didn’t. It’s called logic, or even arithmetic.

    4. Lee Says:

      Such a lengthy response implies that you have understood your error and are desperately trying to wriggle out of it.

      I have nothing add, the issue is quite clear. I am satisfied to leave it to the judgment of readers.

      Any half-way intelligent assessment of this dialogue will come to the correct conclusion:

      To support Tony Blair, you either have to be

      1) To stupid to understand a simple poll
      2) Capable of shameless lies, despite emperical evidence to the contrary being on display

      • keeptonyblairforpm Says:

        Lee – the lengthy response means that you take SOME understanding of the facts.

        The reason you have nothing to add is that you are incapable of reading and understanding the FACTS as well as incapable of adding up 23 & 77.

        Btw, it’s “empirical”.

        Spelling issues too, eh?

    5. Julie Says:

      Lee look, it’s actually VERY simple.

      What B. is doing here is called Quantative Data Analysis. If there is a poll and you can say either a) or b) and 23% say a, what do the other 77% say?

      If that is NOT the case, the poll should indicate how many of the 100% actually responded.

      See what I mean? I doubt it!!!

      • Lee Says:

        Julie, you look – it really is very simply. The question he is claiming is about lying is not about lying at all, it is about whether he should face war crimes charges.

        “A YouGov poll for The Sunday Times newspaper found that 23 percent of those surveyed think that Blair should face war crimes charges.”

        “The weekly newspaper added that 52 percent believe that Blair deliberately misled the country in the run-up to the 2003 war.”

        “The survey suggested that most people think the former premier knew that Saddam Hussein possessed no weapons of mass destruction.”

        “Yougov found that only 32 percent of those polled accepted that Blair “genuinely believed” in the threat that he used to help make the case for the Iraq war.”

        You have to be a complete idiot or a complete liar to construe the above poll as meaning that 77% of people think Blair did not lie.

    6. Lee Says:

      Hehe.. English is a foreign language to me, my third language actually – you trying learning one to this standard then we can discuss my literacy further.

      You got caught lying. Be man enough to face it.

      23% think Tony Blair should face war crimes charges. You LIED and claimed that 23% think he misled parliament, and from this concluded that 77% did not think he lied.

      The question you based this on relates to a war crimes trial, not whether or not he lied. YOU LIED.

      On the ACTUAL question of did he lied about their being a credible threat – only 32% said they did not think he lied.

      POLL: 77% – REPEAT 77% – SAY TONY BLAIR TOLD THE TRUTH TO PARLIAMENT OVER IRAQ <—– THIS IS A LIE.

      77% were either against or undecided on the issue of charging him with war crimes.

      Only 32% think he did not lie.

      Blair is a liar and so are you.

      • keeptonyblairforpm Says:

        Lee – and with your inability to add up comes an inability to understand English. Keep trying. You might even get there one day.

        YOU ARE LYING BUT you are nor smart enough in any language, to work out how. We already know why. The same reasons as the press do. The questions (remembering that we haven’t actually seen the poll yet, referred to at least TWO lots of LYING/MISLEADING.)

        You said:

        23% think Tony Blair should face war crimes charges. You LIED and claimed that 23% think he misled parliament, and from this concluded that 77% did not think he lied.

        Read the article again. I quoted directly from the article. It said this:

        Almost a quarter of voters (23%) believe Tony Blair deliberately misled MPs over the Iraq war and should face war crimes charges, an opinion poll has found.

        Are you saying that “misleading MPs” is NOT lying? And are you saying that if he misled MPs he is not necessarily eligible for a war crime charge. That one doesn’t mean the other?

        Interesting that you seem to confrim for my readers that two or more questions being (seemingly) merged into one are confusing the simple-minded. Thus they are merged into one answer by such as yourself.

        They are separate questions and separate answers.

        You really need to do some contextual analysis of the article AND of my write-up of it AND of your LYING interpretation of my words.

        As I showed you in an earlier comment response, the poll (inasmuch as we are able to decipher which question we are actually looking at) was clear as day. No third options were mentioned – no “don’t knows”. If there had been a “don’t know” number mentioned I would have mentioned it. From that lack of a third option offered or responded to, reasonably intelligent people would have to conclude that it was a 23/77% split.

        Moving on to the “credible threat” question and trying to merge the numbers is to try to blind others with your confusion. LYING, in other word.

        The 32%, I REPEAT was on the other question –

        “The YouGov survey for the Sunday Times found less than a third (32%) accepted that Mr Blair “genuinely believed in the threat” which he used to publicly justify sending UK troops, while 52% thought he had “deliberately misled” the country.”

        The “misleading the country” question here was on a different matter than on LYING to MPs. It was on whether or not Blair genuinely believed the threat from Saddam.

        The “deliberately misled the country” mentioned at the end of that sentence, refers to whether or not he “genuinely believed” that Saddam was a threat.

        REPEAT REPEAT REPEAT – A DIFFERENT QUESTION.

        People who cannot even understand the facts as written in a press report cannot claim that others who can are “liars”.

        So stop lying and go off and find the poll. Then we can check it. Questions AND answers.

        Unlike youself, clearly, if I have interpreted anything wrongly (and it turns out that 23 + 77 doesn’t equal 100) I will admit to it.

    7. Grundoon Says:

      Lee,
      As a disinterested spectator to all of this from my chair here in the US it would seem that, because you claim to be fluent in three languages then it is quite an accomplishment to be an idiot in more than one language. I view those of you with the vendetta against TB as one issue simpletons with the mindset of a person who’s mind is made up and does not want to be confused with facts. 23%-77%? How blatantly obvious that if 23% voted yes, then the other 77% must have voted no. This is the problem with yes/no polls. They don;t mean s–t.

    8. Lee Says:

      Yes, 23 + 77 = 100.

      23% think he lied to parliament and should face trial for war crimes and 77% either think he should not or are undecided. The ones who think he did lie but should not face trial are in the 77%.

      And those people people who do think he lied but should not face trial certainly do exist, because in the same poll – with the same people:

      On the specific question of whether he lied, 32% think he did not, 52% think he did and the other 16% are presumably undecided.

      This exchange has been an insight into just how stupid you have to be to admire blair.

      I apologise for calling you a liar. I have decided that it is better attributed to your stupidity.

      • keeptonyblairforpm Says:

        Lee- GROW UP!

        With no third option offered REPEAT REPEAT REPEAT – and no breakdown of the 77% (or indeed the 23% into – if we want to nitpick – maybes/sortof/a little bit/a lot) – how can YOU claim to know what the 77% are thinking?

        Because you are LYING. Habitually.

        Spend some time digging around the internet for the poll, do your homework, and then report back here when you have something useful to say.

    9. cantbearsed Says:

      this is qualityu guys are giving me jokes!

      now you have 3!!! morons who think is up is down and 1 mug wasting time with these muppets.

      52% say BLAIR lied 23% say BLAIR should go to hague for it. simples.

      you cant have 52% saying he lied then from the same survey 77% saying he didnt thats 129%!!!

      did they change their minds from one q to the next? dont think so.

      lee ure a mug if you keep on with these fools!!!

      • keeptonyblairforpm Says:

        cantbe …

        Another STOOOPID individual says:

        52% say BLAIR lied 23% say BLAIR should go to hague for it. simples.

        Er no, simpleton. TWO DIFFERENT QUESTIONS. The 23% does not refer to a percentage of the 52% either, in case that crossed your simple mind. Not as far as we can guess, not having seen the poll. But if by any chance it was 23% of the 52% then the poll is actually saying that only 243 people wanted him to be tried. (Nothing about The Hague here, btw. FACTS – STRAIGHT- GET – PLEASE – TRY!)

        The more likely interpretation, again REPEAT, not having seen the breakdown of the poll, is that there are two or more questions melded into one for effect or headline-making.

        Too hard for you? Thought so. The respondents clearly thought differently on the two questions.

        Subtle but clear differences in the questions. HUGE differences in the answers.

        If any court ever asks you or Lee to sit on a jury, tell them you can’t by reason of inability to understand the questions.

        But you’re right on this – Lee is a mug.

    10. Lee Says:

      Oh for Christ’s sake – yes, he clearly knows they are two separate questions and makes the point. They are two separate questions but they are related thus they are on the same poll.

      He is saying that these same people did not change opinions from one question to the next!

      He is saying that one question determined that 52% of those questioned think he lied.

      “The weekly newspaper added that 52 percent believe that Blair deliberately misled the country in the run-up to the 2003 war.”

      That another question determined that 23% thought he should be charged for war crimes.

      “A YouGov poll for The Sunday Times newspaper found that 23 percent of those surveyed think that Blair should face war crimes charges.”

      He is superimposing the two questions to pose you this very pertinent question –

      If the 23/77% question related to lying as you claim (instead of war crimes charges as I claim)…

      and the 52/32% question is also about lying (which is not in dispute)…

      then how do you explain that 52% of people think he lied one minute then only 32% of the same people thought he lied the next minute on another question?

      He is saying they did not change their minds – he is agreeing with me that the first question was related to war crimes charges.

      That is a fair conclusion to come to given, I repeat:

      “A YouGov poll for The Sunday Times newspaper found that 23 percent of those surveyed think that Blair should face war crimes charges.”

      • keeptonyblairforpm Says:

        Lee – you’re not still trying to justify your inability to comprehend the situation, are you?

        Different questions, different answers. It is not a zero or 100% sum game. But let’s have a little experimental fun here – to say how poll questions can come up with numbers semingly at variance.

        If I made a poll here on whether Lee is able to understand an argument, I might get 23% who agree that he can understand. That would indicate that 77% don’t agree he can understand an argument, if I hadn’t offered a “Don’t know” option.

        Then I might ask – did Lee mislead us by telling us he can understand an argument. I might get 52% who agree, therefore 48% who don’t. But – and the REPORTS of the YouGov poll do NOT make this clear – am I asking only the 77% who agreed with the proposition that Lee can’t understand an argument (the logical group to ask this question) or am I asking ALL of them? I should, to make any kind of sense, only ask the unbelievers. The poll does not make clear which percentage was asked the follow-up questions in the Iraq/Blair poll.

        If I then asked if Lee should be put in the corner for not understanding an argument I might get 28%, therefore 72% say no. But I should only be asking the 77% who think he can’t understand, not the 23% who think he is sharp enough, obviously.

        And if I then asked if Lee should get detention for saying he did understand an argument I might get 55% yes, 45% no. But which percentage of the no-ers am I now asking?

        These are all different questions.

        I concede that the poll report does not make any of this clear. In fact the poll report seems to muddle the questions and the answers. The simple truth is that until we can see the poll results we don’t really know what relationship these numbers have to one another.

        It is intriguing that this Sunday Times YouGov poll cannot be found anywhere on the internet.

        The poll was pulled. It was a rogue poll. It came up with the wrong answers.

        Forget it.

        Some interesting polls here though for the forgetful deniers such as you and your mates:

        http://www.yougov.co.uk/corporate/archives/press-archives-pol-Main.asp?iID=1

      • cantbearsed Says:

        forget it bruv, if this muppet cant make out that the q was about war crimes charges and not if BLAIR lied or not then he aint going to get what i said. dim dim dim.

        23+77=100 23+77=100 23+77=100 blah blah

        yeah bruv 23+77=100 but the q isnt what u say it is. the q ur using is about war crimes. lee has pasted it umpteen times already.

        A YouGov poll for The Sunday Times newspaper found that 23 percent of those surveyed think that Blair should face war crimes charges

        • keeptonyblairforpm Says:

          Forget it, all right, bruv. You and your friend are out-argued and simply WRONG.

          You seem to be referring to this to prove your point:

          ‘Almost a quarter of voters (23%) believe Tony Blair deliberately misled MPs over the Iraq war and should face war crimes charges, an opinion poll has found.’

          This actually disproves your point.

          For more light on your darkness – refer to my answer to “bruv”.

    Leave a Reply

    Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

    WordPress.com Logo

    You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

    Twitter picture

    You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

    Facebook photo

    You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

    Google+ photo

    You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

    Connecting to %s