Absurd Islamists – Victims – Radical Extremists – Loopy Civil Righters?
Comment at end of page
19 July, 2007
RADICALIST POLITICAL ISLAM
On Newsnight last night, 18th July, Shiraz Maher, a former radical Muslim blamed the apathy of the mosques for the radicalisation of the young. The follow-up Newsnight comment pages astounded me. No-one but no-one seemed to confer any credibility on this man who, I thought, spoke clearly and moderately about the issues.
Let’s get the defence over with first; several commenters said that this was a conspiracy by Newsnight, parading such people as Shiraz Mahir, Ed Hussain and Hassan Butt to do down Islam.
As opposed to the actions taken by Islamic fundamentalists to do away with the rest of us?
They’d rather we adopted the radicals’ tactics and demonstrated with thoughtful banners saying, “Death to Muslims”?
I wish they’d grow up!
I really do wonder what is wrong with us? When are we going to remove the blindfolds and even begin to WONDER if we’ve got it right?
That was four days after leaving office. Free to speak his mind it is interesting that he chose THIS topic above all others on which to make one of his few public utterances since his premiership ended.
Article on Blair pasted below:
Blair launches stinging attack on ‘absurd’ British Islamists
Nicholas Watt, political editor
Sunday July 1, 2007
Tony Blair has launched a powerful attack on ‘absurd’ British Islamists who have nurtured a false ‘sense of grievance’ that they are being oppressed by Britain and the United States.In his most outspoken remarks on Islamists, the former Prime Minister warns that Britain is in danger of losing the battle against terrorists unless mainstream society confronts the threat.
Blair’s remarks, in which he also attacks some civil liberty campaigners as ‘loopy loo’, were made in a Channel 4 documentary recorded last Tuesday on the eve of his departure from Downing Street.
‘The idea that as a Muslim in this country that you don’t have the freedom to express your religion or your views, I mean you’ve got far more freedom in this country than you do in most Muslim countries,’ Blair told Observer columnist Will Hutton, who presents the documentary.
‘The reason we are finding it hard to win this battle is that we’re not actually fighting it properly. We’re not actually standing up to these people and saying, “It’s not just your methods that are wrong, your ideas are absurd. Nobody is oppressing you. Your sense of grievance isn’t justified.”‘
Blair held out the example of the overthrow of the Taliban in Afghanistan – criticised by Islamists as an example of the heavy-handed imperial West oppressing Muslims – to highlight unfounded claims of grievance. He asked how it is possible to claim that Afghanistan’s Muslims are being oppressed when the Taliban ‘used to execute teachers for teaching girls in schools’.
Blair added: ‘How are [we] oppressing them? You’re oppressing them when you support the people who are trying to blow them up.’
Blair, who normally chooses his language carefully when he talks about Islamists, also takes a swipe at critics who accused him of undermining civil liberties.
‘When I’m trying to change the law in order to make it easier to deport people who engage in terrorism – the idea that that’s an assault on hundreds of years of British civil liberties is completely absurd. Some of what is written on this is loopy-loo in its extremism.’
‘The Last Days of Tony Blair’ was shown on Channel 4 on 2nd July. Missed it, I’m afraid.
And now that he is outta here – the ‘NotBlair’ government is doing the kind of thing Blair would have been strung up for – or more or less HAS been, figuratively speaking: making number plate information gathered from cctv cameras available to the police in the fight against terrorism.
The Home Office has suddenly realised it wants it – no – NEEDS it!
Big Brother all over again? Not as far as I am concerned. But then this should have been done months ago and possibly would have been done if it hadn’t been Blair and Reid in the hot seats. THEY were the enemy of freedom – remember.
Not the radical fundamentalists; poor lambs. They were the poor innocent bystanders.
Absolute stinking RUBBISH!
And this Shami Chakrabarti person, the director of Liberty, gets RIGHT up my nose!
She says: “It is one thing to ask the public for special measures to fight the grave threat of terrorism, but when that becomes a Trojan horse for mass snooping for more petty matters it only leads to a loss of trust in government.”
Does she irritate anyone else, or is it just me?
The man on the programme, Shiraz Maher, who had been a leading radicalised Muslim, was refreshingly honest about Islam, and the causes of Islamist radicalism.
Good for him. As I have said on here before, it really DOES depend on moderate, sensible British Muslim voices to move us on from this period of utter misrepresentation of the cause and effect of radicalisation.
He states clearly that in his opinion, foreign policy, may well have been a catalyst (or “excuse” as Tony Blair stated on numerous occasions) but it is not the CAUSE of radicalisation and the resultant terrorism.
THE CAUSE OF RADICALISATION IS ISLAMIC THEOLOGY
The root cause is the theology and ideology of Islam. Unfortunately, this is only accepted by a proportion of Muslims. In other words, most ‘victimised’ Muslims prefer to use the “but” caveat – “but Iraq, but Blair, but Bush” … etc. But foreign policy is NOT the cause of radicalisation . For twenty years, long before Iraq, radicalised Muslims were following the instructions in the doctrine of ‘Political Islam’.
That is, that it is their DUTY to impose Sharia Islamic Law over the whole world.
That, my dear trusting, non-radicalised friends of all religions and none, is THE TRUTH and it’s time we accepted it.
September 11 2001 may have angered some. It certainly did me, since a friend died there. But it gave an excuse to many more to foment breeding unrest. And from there came more terrorism.
These people’s minds had long been radicalised.
Members of Hizb ut-Tahrir and other groups within many mosques up and down the country for two decades have been radicalised and radicalising, and preparing for this day by political brainwashing.
Their leaders have been intimidated and/or afraid to develop a suitable moderate response and have banned political discussion. By so doing the radicalised movements and individuals moved underground or behind closed doors. Moderate Islam failed to develop the arguments against radicalisation.
Foreign policy – an easy target – is not the cause. It has been blamed erroneously, purposefully.
I TOLD YOU SO
I’d like to say “I told you so”, but I didn’t. Someone else did. Tony Blair told you so – but you preferred to listen to the liberal intelligentsia press (The “Lippies” – who should have buttoned it YEARS ago!)
Blair told you when he spoke of multiculturalism, in its various shades and tones. He tried to talk subtly to mosque leaders, praising progress, while pointing up shortcomings of integration, and steps needed for the future. It was evidently TOO subtle.
Others in his government, including John Reid and Jack Straw mentioned issues of separatism, such as burkhas; but the Lippies got lippy about that too.
And now the man with a handle on the problem, our former Prime Minister, has moved off to other warring fields before he should have. To pursue a settlement in the integration v radicalisation argument away from this country and its people? Hopefully. And WE, had we been sharper, could have led the world on this. We could have thrown off the mantle of being a soft touch for terrorists.
A mantle which is now our shame.
LOOPY LIBERAL CIVIL RIGHTERS
Allies, notably the Americans, consider us a breeding ground for terrorism because of our TOO, TOO liberal laws, and because we have shafted Blair, one of the few world leaders who both knew and was determined to act upon what was going on.
Personally I’m angry still. Not just at the general Islamist culture which has refused to take responsibility for its own people, but at the British press. And at the Labour party. And at the Conservatives.
Strangely, you might think, MAINLY at the British press.
Why? The press is the conduit for debate, discussion, enlightenment and understanding. Tony Blair called them the ‘feral press’, and for that was chewed up and spat out by many of them. His recent remark of “loopy loo”was right on.
But being animalistic in their pursuit of individuals is the lesser of their great weaknesses.
The main weakness is their refusal to come to terms with the power they have to deceive, whether by intention or not.
They have taken their raison d’etre – to hunt out truth from all dark corners of the establishment – to extremes.
They’ve turned around that seemingly noble aim to one much less admirable.
To hunt out anything, truth, lies, half-truths, rumour – to convince the public that elected politicians are by their very nature of EVIL intent.
They added together two and two and got five.
And then we read all about it!
They did not approve of Iraq; they saw only untruths in WMD evidence presentation; they were suspicious over Dr Kelly’s death; they thought the Iraq inquiries questionable. And they told us. Continually. Ad nauseum. Drip-drip – to inevitable corrosive effect.
As a result OUR Prime Minister found his position intolerable. God only knows what it did to him and his family on a personal level.
We know what it did politically.
FOOLING THE ‘UN-GULLIBLE’
At a relaxed and enjoyable garden party a few days ago I witnessed first hand the effects of the all-pervasive nature of the press’s campaign against Bush, Blair and the British government. (This government, by the way, in which Brown was a VERY high profile mover.)
Almost to a man and woman, they were convinced Blair is a liar, a war criminal and a war- monger. Oh, and of course 9/11 was an inside job! Bush might be worse even than Blair, only he is not as bright, said they.
These are NOT stupid gullible people. They are people I respect and consider friends.
Fortunately, for this small group there was light at the end of the tunnel. In all modesty – me.
It’s good to watch minds changing in front of one’s eyes. Clarification of the press’s role in the whole understanding of the bigger picture, changed minds; some at least. As did the realisation that the press and the Left of Labour had entered an unspoken unholy alliance to do down Blair.
Others of my friends huddled in corners debating; “… What was Cameron doing about the terrorist problem?; and what about Brown? Are you still a card-carrying Conservative? … Perhaps we should reprieve Blair, after all”.
And the wine was sweet and cool.
I hope the writer of this comment to the article below will not mind if I re-produce his comment here.
It appeared on the Guardian pages on 8th July, 2007, resulting from an article urging Brown not to do a Blair.
Tap, tap, tap to wear down the terrorists
Gordon Brown must beware Tony Blair’s mistakes if he wants to beat the bombers
By Kenneth Roth
Sunday July 8th, 2007
I’m not pasting the article – it was rather lacking in balance anyway, but you can read it here. Some of the commenters were eminently sensible, such as this one below.
None of us – those who are sane, anyway – advocate pursuit of the entire Muslim copmmunity here or anywhere else. But it’s time for Muslims to get real. I have in front of me books and tracts from impeccable Islamic sources, readily available in this country, which advocate outright, unending hatred for Jews, Christians, and all non-Muslims. These are not the ravings of extremists, but the writings of eminent scholars of high rank. It’s an obsessive sort of hatred that demands total separation from non-Muslim society, and disobedience to kafir governments. These writings, like generations of the same before them, make extensive use of verses from the Qur’an and hadiths that call for violence against non-believers. No-one is mistranslating these verses (I read them in Arabic). They do not call for terrorism, but they declare jihad to be legitimate. The hatred preached here goes into mosques and reaches young Muslims, and it forms a sort of bridge that leads some to terrorism.
I can’t say too strongly how venomous these writings are. They show absolutely no regard for non-Muslim society and its values. They decree all non-Muslims to be inferior, beneath contempt. Some of these are school textbooks.
Elsewhere, as in the West Bank and Gaza, hate literature starts in kindergarten, and little child are paraded in suicide belts and told to look forward to becoming martyrs later in life. Mawdudists in Pakistan, Wahhabis in Saudi Arabia, Salafists everywhere preach the same message of hate. The number of Muslims willing to support terror is growing among the younger generations.
The Muslim communities of Britain need to get their act together fast, because innocent Muslims risk getting caught up in the inevitable backlash from acts of terror. The MCB, a very unrepresentative organization, needs to worry less about imagined offences to Muslims and more about what young Muslims are doing and saying. Imams, almost none of whom speak English, need to do some soul-searching and come up with ways to work with the rest of this country to overcome a sickness that is eating into their youth. It’s time to stop protesting about books and cartoons, and to get stuck into the real business of stopping the killing and the will to kill. If there are imams who refuse to do that, indeed persist in handing out hate literature and preaching hate sermons, I cannot think of a single reason why they should remain in this country.
As for the government, what choice does it have? Does it really have to put the human rights of terrorist suspects above those of the rest of the population? In a real sense, this country is at war. The attacks will happen again and again until moderate Muslims and the rest of us find ways to defuse the hatred. These attacks have absolutely nothing to do with British foreign policy: read the history of Muslim extremism from the formation of the Muslim Brotherhood onwards and you will see a pattern that has turned an underlying hatred of the West and moderate Muslims alike into a permanent call for violence. If we pull out of Iraq or Afghanistan, will it make any difference? Did it make any difference when Israel pulled out of Gaza two years ago?
Quite. But we can but try, can’t we, Mr Blair?