- Home
- Read international & press responses to this video
- Watch Google’s full, longer version (16mins 48secs)
- Geert Wilders speaks on the movie
- The Quilliam Foundation – a Muslim counter-extremism think tank
Other posts on Wilders/Ahmed/Free Speech:
- Poll to Reverse Geert Wilders Ban AND to Protect Free Speech
- Draft letter to Home Secretary, Foreign Secretary, & Brown, the Excuse for a PM
- Ahmed came first for the Dutch, then the Jews over Gaza. And the Press were mute…
- Islam going Dutch, European, American
- Wilders charged over Fitna: Is this The End or Just the Beginning?
Comment at end
Update – 14th April, 2008
Lebanon has called for a dialogue with Geert Wilders following the Fitna video. Well, that’s a start.
Lebanon’s high-ranking Shiite Muslim cleric Sheikh Mohammed Hussien Fadlallah called for dialogue with Dutch politician Geert Wilders regarding his anti-Islam film “Fitna.”
“We are ready to enter into dialogue with the Dutch politicians, especially with Geert Wilders, to explain to them the understandings of Islam and the Koran regarding violence,” Fadlallah said.
And … Jihad Watch says – “Preeeeeee-cisely“ on the news that the Jihadist cleric Omar Bakri has said that Fitna – “could be a film by the Mujahideen”.
31st March, 2008 – UPDATE
LIVELEAK HAS FIXED ITS LITTLE ‘FITNA’ PROBLEM – WILDERS BACK ONLINE
“** 30/3/2008: Liveleak Update **
On the 28th of March LiveLeak.com was left with no other choice but to remove the film “fitna” from our servers following serious threats to our staff and their families. Since that time we have worked constantly on upgrading all security measures thus offering better protection for our staff and families. With these measures in place we have decided to once more make this video live on our site. We will not be pressured into censoring material which is legal and within our rules. We apologise for the removal and the delay in getting it back, but when you run a website you don’t consider that some people would be insecure enough to threaten our lives simply because they do not like the content of a video we neither produced nor endorsed but merely hosted. ”
Nuff said.
UNBELIEVABLE … BUT TRUE!
UPDATE: Liveleak, the British video host who first broadcast this video has been forced to remove it.
“Following threats to our staff of a very serious nature, and some ill informed reports from certain corners of the British media that could directly lead to the harm of some of our staff, Liveleak.com has been left with no other choice but to remove Fitna from our servers.
This is a sad day for freedom of speech on the net but we have to place the safety and well being of our staff above all else. We would like to thank the thousands of people, from all backgrounds and religions, who gave us their support. They realised LiveLeak.com is a vehicle for many opinions and not just for the support of one.
Perhaps there is still hope that this situation may produce a discussion that could benefit and educate all of us as to how we can accept one anothers culture.
We stood for what we believe in, the ability to be heard, but in the end the price was too high.”
WHAT!? Reports from “certain corners of the British media”! I am ashamed, but not surprised, at my country’s media. The loudmouthed ignoramouses whose freedoms they say they so fondly cherish. The same media who crunched Blair’s reputation under their feet over the Honours fiasco, over “dodgy” dossiers, over Iraq. THEY should be thoroughly ashamed. They won’t be. THEY are the enemy within. Well, YouTube has not been cowed, YET. If you want to save this video just in case, download it to your hard drive. You can then upload it again to a web host like YouTube or Google.
They won’t silence all of us. Freedom of speech is ours too.
28th March, 2008
Wilders: “I believe we have been too tolerant of the intolerant. We should learn to become intolerant of the intolerant.”
Profile of Geert Wilders, Dutch MP
Note from this blog owner: I am as convinced as I can be that if I were Dutch I would not be voting for this man’s right-wing politics, BUT, in the interests of the free speech that permits the west to laugh at its own religions, that allows an English lawyer to call on Al Qaeda to kill a former British prime minister, and that turns away from the FACT that not everyone understands or complies with OUR western “tolerance”, here is the highly contentious Geert Wilders video, which has just been released.
WARNING – CONTAINS GRAPHIC SCENES OF VIOLENCE (Google Video)
[NOTE: The Wilders video can still be found on YouTube, but you need to sign up and verify your age first.]
[ASIDE: Today the British government has announced that it is applying “controls” to videos in order that we can censor what our children are watching. It should be noted that this cannot apply to online sharing sites such as YouTube. This video, when you search for it on YouTube, only asks that you confirm you are of an age to view it! Click “yes” and it’s yours to view, download, distribute. And you can use any portions of it to re-mix a video and then re-post that version.
Control? Laughable. It’s too late for that.]
Geert Wilders’ sin seems to be that he is criticising Islam itself and not the extreme political/religious fundamentalists who use their Holy Book as justification for murder. But we really cannot dodge around the issue as though others are with us on this separation. Many in the Islamic world DO take the Khoran at face value and as literally as many take the Garden of Eden story. The difference being that in Christian/Jewish writings we are not asked to “kill the infidel”.
I have no truck with religious/political hatred of any sort. But it will not be an easy task for Muslims to come up with an alternative movie showing that other religions ask for this kind of retribution on “non-believers”.
And it is also clear that it is from some in the Islamic faith that today’s terrorism emanates.
Moderate Muslims around the world owe the rest of us this:
- A re-visiting of the Khoran
- The expurgation and disowning of all references advocating death to others
- A re-establishment of their religion as holy, and not holy war
But I fear there isn’t much time. And as far as I understand Islam, there is no overall controlling decision-making body with the authority to question and alter their Holy Book.
Is it already too late?
Are we already intimidated to the extent that Wikipedia feels the need to write this on its website (now altered by some unknown hand. But you can see Wikipedia’s “fitna” explanation here). Meanwhile the Dutch government dismisses Wilders’ film out of hand, and Wilders is under 24 hour protection. Why? For telling the truth.
Read excerpts from this German site:
‘Dutch far-right MP Geert Wilders made good on his promise to post his controversial film critical of Islam on the Internet Thursday, March 28, putting Holland on alert for retaliation attacks by incensed Muslims.
The Wilders film, titled “Fitna” [strife], made its debut via British video-sharing website Liveleak and soon spread to the globally popular YouTube site where it quickly generated heated debate among viewers and much divided opinion.
The Dutch government, fearful of reprisals similar to those which followed the reproduction across Europe of the cartoons depicting the Prophet Mohammed, pressured Wilders not to release the movie but to little effect.
“This film equates Islam with violence and we reject this interpretation,” said Prime Minister Jan Peter Balkenende. “The vast majority of Muslims reject extremism and violence. In fact the victims are often also Muslims”
Initial reactions from the Muslim community in the Netherlands were restrained. The evening after the film’s release passed without incident, in contrast to the unrest that swept the country following the murder by an Islamic militant in 2004 of film director Theo van Gogh, another Dutch artist who was accused of offending Islam.
Prime Minister Balkenende praised the efforts of his government to defuse Muslim anger in the months preceding the release of the film and welcomed the initial Muslim response. “The government is heartened by the initial restrained reactions of Dutch Muslim organizations,” he said. “The Dutch government stands for a society in which freedom and respect go hand in hand… Let us solve problems by working together.”‘
What do YOU think? Can we solve it together?
REACTIONS TO THIS VIDEO’S POSTING ONLINE
- UN’s Secretary General Ban Ki-moon calls for calm. Excerpt:
28 March 2008 – Secretary-General today led a chorus of United Nations condemnation of the Internet broadcast of a video made by the Dutch parliamentarian Geert Wilders, describing it as “offensively anti-Islamic,” while he also called on those upset by the film to remain calm. In a statement issued by his spokesperson after last night’s airing of the film, entitled Fitna, Mr. Ban said “there is no justification for hate speech or incitement to violence. The right of free expression is not at stake here.
“I acknowledge the efforts of the Dutch Government to stop the broadcast of this film and appeal for calm to those understandably offended by it. Freedom must always be accompanied by social responsibility.”
- Britain blamed by Iran for hosting the video
- The Times article & comments
- The Guardian’s Collective Shrug – and other typical Dhimmitudisms. Written by this man.
- YouTube’s Posting Decision – Now You Don’t See It – Now You Do!
- The European Union condemns the film
- Freedom’s Zone – Defending free speech & tolerance, says “truth is often painful”
- CNN report – Wilders facing legal action
- Cranmer’s political blog – concern over free speech
- Read “The Absurd Report”
- Infidels Are Cool blog – lively commentary, and a Google version of the video
- American Thinker – “It is Islamic violence which threatens Holland and all of Europe”
- The Asian Tribune – The Council of Europe representing the Muslims in Europe as well as Ahmadiyya Muslim Jamaath delegation in Sri Lanka condemns video. Excerpt:
“As the intention of this conspiracy is to defame the Holy Quran, Ahmadiyya delegation clearly explained to the Ambassador that any one who do such acts should fear for the punishment of God, who guarantees for the protection of this Holy Scripture – who is the One revealed this Holy Book to His Holy Prophet.”
GOOGLE HAS THE FULL VERSION OF THE WILDERS VIDEO AS ORIGINALLY SHOWN AT LIVELEAK UNTIL THE BRITISH PRESS AND THREATS FORCED ITS SHAMEFUL REMOVAL
POLL – POPULAR WITH PUBLIC, NOT WITH JOURNALISTS (HE’S OBVIOUSLY DOING SOMETHING CORRECT!)
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APOSTASY NOW
I referred to this in a reply to a commenter here at this page. Thought I should include it on the page itself. I don’t really know how anyone can complain about this sort of thing being shown, even if one is a Muslim who disagrees vehemently with it. It’s what is written in the Khoran, so it is part of Islamist theology. And fundamentalists will NOT deviate from that, and moderate Muslims have neither the power nor the will, it seems
Follow the links at the ‘Apostates of Islam’ site
This horrific video of people being stoned to death for adultery is indescribable in its atrocity against our fellow man. It’s unbelievably cruel. The people punishing them are worse than ANIMALS. Animals kill for food – to survive.
The people are wrapped in cloths, half buried and then, hearing only the baying of the crowds – “Allah, Allah is Great” – they are pelted with stones until their heads are turned to mush. It takes them some time to die, and some of them struggle to the end to release themselves. The pain must be excruciating.
My heart aches for them. And this evil is muslim upon muslim. It is not an invention of the west or anti-Islams. It happens. Perhaps now repeatedly in some Muslim lands as I write. If Islamic peoples embrace this theology so willingly and with such bloodlust against their own, what hope is there that they would do less against non-Muslims?
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A REMINDER to FELLOW BRITS: BRITISH MOSQUES PREACH HATE – DISPATCHES, UK
Green Lane Mosques, Birmingham, the centre for Wahabism, the most extreme form of Islamist extremism. This mosque is influenced by Saudi Arabian clerics, “since the 1980s”. You can hear all the ambitions of the jihadists here. As well as such as – “Hit your children … women are deficient … throw homosexuals off the mountains … marry a pre-pubescent child ‘as did Mohammed’ … dismantle British democracy … take over the country”.
A Saudi PLOT? Is THAT the (political) problem?
This film footage is not invented or misinterpreted. Just filmed.
Are these people all in custody now? What do YOU think?
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BUT WE’RE FIGHTING BACK
And now Iran is going to make their own video about Christianity. Ah well. Don’t waste your time. We’re used to it. We laugh at ourselves, and will disarm you for agreeing with you half the time! Sickening, isn’t it?
http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/Top_News/2008/04/04/iranian_group_plans_counter-documentary/8626/
Tags: "Fitna" Video, allah, dutch mp, EU, Europe/EU/Lisbon Treaty/Full-time President, fitna, fundamentalism, Geert Wilders, Islam, islamic, islamists, Jan Peter Balkenende, liveleak, mohammed, netherlands, strife, Terrorism, terrorists, theo van gogh, video, youtube
Tony Blair 
March 28, 2008 at 1:24 pm |
it’s not impossible,
the only sad bit is the fact that the handful of extremists in every region have ended up gaining more popularity and a larger “following” than the moderates..
i’m a muslim from pakistan myself, and i can tell you this much, that the Quran’s message is..not vehemently against everybody else, and while the verses that Geert Wilder used in his video are just slightly off in translation, they need to be taken in their original context to make sense..because these verses were revealed 1400 years ago at a time when Islam was seen as a radical ideology and a threat to the existing belief system in Arabia, and the verses were revealed largely in a context of self defense,. i realize this may not be the most convincing form of evidence, but i can ask you to read the source of the text (the Quran itself) and see for yourself what the religion is all about.
sorry if this sounds rather random..i was kinda writing stream of consciousness..
March 28, 2008 at 1:57 pm |
Moderate Muslim? that is the question. Why are Europeans giving away their culture to foreigners and cult religions? For 1000’s of years you have been doing just fine. Democracy, science, speration of church and state have propelled Europe into a birght future. Now, it seems your future may be in peril. When Hitler invaded the Rhine Europe was like “well, it is part of his own country and nothing to worry about…” until he took a little more and more… Wake up! defend your country and your culture!
March 28, 2008 at 2:32 pm |
Hi ovais,
Well I sincerely hope we can get the moderate view over. But we also need to stop the ritual punishments Islam perpetrates against its own.
Yes, I accept your words on the age of the Quran, and the context in which it was written. Having said that, others might say that the Christian and Hebrew scriptures are older still and don’t instruct their followers to hate and murder infidels.
Can you tell me how ANY civilised Muslim justifies this? I really need to try to understand this. If I can’t, I’m with Geert Wilders more than I realised.
http://www.apostatesofislam.com/media/stoning.htm
This horrific video of people being stoned to death for adultery is indescribable in its atrocity against our fellow man. It’s unbelievably cruel. The people punishing them are worse than ANIMALS. Animals kill for food – to survive.
The people are wrapped in cloths, half buried and then, hearing only the baying of the crowds – “Allah, Allah is Great” – they are pelted with stones until their heads are turned to mush. It takes them some time to die, and some of them struggle to the end to release themselves. The pain must be excruciating.
My heart aches for them. And this evil is muslim upon muslim. It is not an invention of the west or anti-Islams. It happens. Perhaps now repeatedly in some Muslim lands as I write. If Islamic peoples embrace this theology so willingly and with such bloodlust against their own, what hope is there that they would do less against non-Muslims?
I’ve had a try at reading through the Quran at its website and got only so far, admittedly, before my eyes were starting to cross! Sorry. And I’m sure MOST of it is good. I think religions DO have good intent at their hearts. But of course there are so many elements which just have no place in today’s world – dreadful punishments for adultery, homosexuality, even theft. And apostasy is also punishable by death. We are entitled to ask – what kind of religion is this?
Evil is as evil does. We in the west do not accept this barbarity. We never will.
I don’t know the answer, but I think nothing less than banning stoning, hand-chopping and decapitation will leave Islam’s extreme reputation where it should be – in the past.
IT really IS over to all good Muslim leaders to make the changes.
But who has the courage or following to lead moderate Islam?
March 28, 2008 at 3:06 pm |
Unfortunately, I’m not able to write as much as I would wish, at this moment. I would, however, like to comment as a Westerner, an American, who has just been made aware of Geert Wilder’s film (and I have watched it from beginning to end). I can only hope that the truly open-minded followers of ALL religions, world-wide, realize that this sort of trash is viewed for what it is, by their bretheren around the world. To lump the narrow-minded and hate-filled of ANY religion with the WHOLE of that religion can only be called absurd!! And this truly is known by so very many in ALL countries.
To say that religious hatred and violence is limited to Islam is so completely untrue, as to be rediculous! The horrors said and done in the name of Christianity (and not ONLY in the Middle Ages) have often been just as brutal and frightening to the rest of the world. And OFTEN, as with Muslim extremist violence, the victims are other Christians! Extremists are extremists…no matter their religious affiliation! And they can certainly be equally hateful and dangerous…to anyone and EVERYONE.
Sadly, there are always those of less enlightened mentality and ideals, who will always take this sort of propoganda to heart…and react accordingly. May we all do our best to speak our minds and hearts OPENLY…in order to show the rest of the world that hatred is NOT accepted by any group as a whole, AND to make certain that our voices are heard by the people in power!!
March 28, 2008 at 3:23 pm |
Hi Liz,
You said:
“To say that religious hatred and violence is limited to Islam is so completely untrue, as to be rediculous!”
Point taken. I think moderates of all religions agree with you that it is only a minority.
But today it’s hard to argue that there are many Christians who are doing this to Christians much less to those of other religions. Or perhaps you know better than I do. If so, perhaps you’d provide me with a few links?
Always willing to learn.
As for the past, yes, we know of our ‘sad and bad’ religious histories. My contention is that we can’t say the past was dreadful so anything that’s done today is not any more dreadful, so in effect today’s perpetrations of evil don’t really matter that much.
There is a huge difference in the efficacy of the means of distribution today. Millions of impressionable minds put themselves forward for sacrifice to the cause at the drop of a YouTube video. The all-pervasive media makes the message easier to disseminate and thus much more dangerous.
And, really Liz, do you have no concerns that the Quran seems to seek annihilation of non-believers?
Did you look at the video I pointed to in my previous response?
If so, what do you think?
March 28, 2008 at 3:27 pm |
I totally support his video. Muslims DO NOT respect other religions, in their countries only Muslim are considered full citizens. Jew are vilified in the same manner as their old allies the Nazis. Islam spread from a tiny part of the Arabian Peninsula to Spain in the west and India in the East in 100 years through warfare and violence inspired by the Koran. As far as the equivocation about Christianity and violence, I might add that those events were in the past and are discredited by every Christian sect in the world minus a couple redneck churches in the sticks. While Islamic violence occurs every day.
As proof of this: there are synagogues and mosques in Rome, churches and mosques in Jerusalem but nothing but hate mosques in Saudi Arabia, where the bigots there treat their women like camels and won’t even allow Jews to visit.
March 28, 2008 at 3:56 pm |
Hi Jakester,
Thank you for your comment. Good points about the religious buildings in some countries. On the other hand I know there are Christian churches in Iraq, and recently Muslims were helping to re-furbish one of them.
When I compare our tolerant approach to others compared with the fundamentalist Islamist approach I need go no further than the centre of my capital city, London. There you often find groups of people waving banners calling for death to this or that British or American politician and ALL westerners. They bellow inciteful nonsense, while the English police stand by nonchalantly and wonder what’s on TV tonight.
Free speech means they can say, shout or scream whatever they like.
And yet in the lands of their forefathers (even today) can you imagine how a westerner would be treated waving a placard saying “death to your *Leader*”?
He’d be inside four walls before he knew it. And that’s if he were lucky. And if a WOMAN had the gall to try to complain – HAH!
We don’t take it seriously enough, as it’s not in our nature to fume and boil at others’ rather desperate need for religious fundamentalism. We tend to think they’ll grow out of it.
Hmm…mmm
March 28, 2008 at 4:09 pm |
keeptonyblairforpm, your point is well received. I might also add in tolerant London, Muslim clerics who preach hate against infidels, crusaders or Jews are welcome, including Hamas and Hezbollah reps, groups devoted to killing Jews and destroying Israel. But then agaiin, Israelis are threatened with arrest if they visit London on trumped up human rights charges and are denied visas based on their nationalism by the same tolerant people. Of course, in merry London, Communist Chinese and Cubans are always welcome, no matter what they did in Tibet or to their dissenters, as well as those paragons of human rights and religious toleration from the Sudan, not to mention Sheiks of all stripes from your old colonial client states. Lucky we have a bill of rights here, but not in your country. Things are not perfect here but your implication that a woman would be abused by authorities more than a man as a matter of principle is slanderous. You can ignore religious fundamentalism all you want, but they might not want to ignore you when they come to visit while they are establishing the Islamic Republic of England
March 28, 2008 at 4:30 pm |
Jakester,
It’s been infuriating for some of us to watch these “preachers” on London streets. All the more infuriating because the police stand by and no-one is arrested even though there are laws under which they could be charged. We in the UK are so in hock to the civil rights lobby that we have become its prisoners. And all because of the fear of civil unrest and/or losing a few seats in a general election.
Shameful.
The Israeli to whom you refer – I believe he stayed on the plane – and the British police did not have the necessary paperwork to board it and arrest him. An atrocious piece of nonsense. Just as well the Police were incompetent.
It’s no wonder Tony Blair allowed the Americans to extradite some of ours, without American reciprocation. He was fighting the civil rights lobby on several fronts, imho, and not least within his own party. He had to go for that reason as much as for Iraq. The people NEVER voted him out. The Left of his party and the liberal press connived.
I don’t say it is simple to work out who should or should not get entry into the UK, and I know that it is not right to damn a whole country’s population because of its leaders’ wrongdoings. BUT, I suppose, old colonials do have rights and we need to keep the oil flowing. No friends, just sometime allies in politics.
A recent paper on Rights & Responsibilities brought howls of derision from the civil righters! If THEY didn’t write it, it must be a right-wing plot. Incredible.
Ah well, looks like I’m done for anyway in the ‘Islamic Republic of England’, considering who I support.
I’ll go down fighting.
March 28, 2008 at 7:15 pm |
What are we in the West to do with a theocratic culture still stuck in the middle ages and bound by a text that combines religious revelation and legal prescription with the fervor of an open call to arms? Since this text, the Koran, is the only unifying element of Islam, there are no existing means for its meaning or application to be temporized. In my opinion, the letter and current practive of Islam are totally INCOMPATIBLE with western civilization, which has evolved from the turmoil of religious sectarianism to a collection of secular societies bound by humanistic laws.
If it weren’t for the divine irony of placement of critical natural resources (oil), Islam would be totally irrelevant. As a culture, they have not offered anything to the sustainment or advancement of human society since the Moors kept alight the ancient knowledge of the western philosophers during the dark ages. Were it not for oil, and the arms and technology it buys, the radicals of Islam would have little means to strike out against the West. As it stands, their ability to inflict harm an export the violence inherent in their coda is directly related to their ability to take advantage of the freedoms and technologies that are a byproduct of Western civilization.
Indeed, even Islamic moderates must be viewed with a skeptical eye, since the Koran calls for the use of lying and subterfuge as a means to gain tactical and strategic advantage over the infidel opponent. An apparently moderate muslim who does not renounce the Koran or submit it to binding re-interpretation, is either a bad muslim or a good muslim following the tenets of his faith. Islam recognizes two conditions for humanity: The House of Islam, or the House of War. If one is not in the former, one will always remain in the latter.
The sooner Islamic nations and cultures actively confront the discrepancy between the Koran and modern Western society, the better we all will be. If this strife continues, Islam will eventually awaken a sleeping Western giant. If that happens, Western Europe may bear new scars to accompany those left by the expulsion of fascism in the last century.