Twenty Facts About Islam Every Infidel Should Know

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    PLEASE NOTE: The content of this blog and opinions expressed here or pointed to are all my choice and mine alone. In particular, the controversial postings on the present Wilders/Islam issues implies NO reference whatsoever to Tony Blair’s opinions on Islam. (This note is a result of an e-mail I received from a well-respected online friend and commenter, expressing concern that the title of my blog [Tony Blair] might lead some to incorrect conclusions, or even to weaken Mr Blair’s position on interfaith dialogue. That is NOT, repeat NOT my intention or desire.)

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    13th February, 2009

    UPDATE 27th August 2010: A commenter, rafee, at this blog has dismissed the below on the grounds that we “infidels & Kafirs” need to read the Qur’an before we comment. Here I have added some quotes from Islam’s writings and good books. I await his response to these, and thank him for the opportunity to update this post.

    20 FACTS ABOUT ISLAM EVERY INFIDEL SHOULD KNOW

    I found this at Cranmer’s site. I hope that the commenter who posted it will be happy for me to reproduce it here. It might focus minds, especially the shameful Left in British politics – oh yes, and Centre and Right too, who fondly described Mr Wilders tonight on the dreadfully unbalanced BBC Radio 4 ‘Any Questions’ programme with several choice descriptive words for his views on Islam.  But Mr Wilders is NOT the only one who questions Islam per se, as this person’s contribution confirms.  It all adds to that great canvass of FREE SPEECH, don’t you think? ON the other hand if this commenter is NOT British he’d better not try to enter this elective dictatorship. He’d be most clearly unwelcome as far as our governm … dhimmiment is concerned.

    religion of pieces said… Twenty facts about Islam every infidel should know.

    Islam …

    1) Is a mind-control and information-control cult founded by a murderer, torturer, brigand, rapist and pedophile called Mohammed. The mind-control and information-control aspects require that all criticism be silenced.

    2) Is Mohammed’s personality cult. Has no foundations other than Mo’s murderous rantings (Koran and Hadith). The Koran consists of two conflicting parts – Meccan and Medinan (peaceful and violent respectively). The Medinan stuff supersedes (‘abrogates’) the Meccan stuff. Muslims act Medinan, but quote Meccan verses to the gullible infidels.

    3) Claims to worship the same God as Christians and Jews, but in fact worships Allah – a demonic channelling through Mohammed’s psychopathic ego. The Death Cult mixes garbled versions of Christian and Jewish scriptures with pagan practices such as moon and meteorite-worship, and cut-throat blood sacrifice of animals and non-believers.

    4) Has no rational, philosophical nor theological basis, and the whole belief-system is contradicted by science, philosophy, commonsense, human decency and internal inconsistency.

    5) Cannot withstand rational criticism. Can only spread and maintain itself by ignorance, illiteracy, war, terrorism, and intimidation. Islam has bloody borders and cannot co-exist peacefully with other belief systems. Winston Churchill said that Islam in a man is as dangerous as hydrophobia (rabies) in a dog.

    6) Has a superstitious dread of images of pigs, crosses, Buddhas, Saint George (and his flag) and of course Motoons.

    7) Regards Islamic women as semihuman. Wife-beating, incest and child abuse (including mufa’khathat or ‘thighing’ – the ritual abuse of infants) are encouraged.

    8) Regards all unbelievers (Kaffirs, Kuffar, Kufrs, Kafirs) as ritually unclean subhumans to be killed, subjugated, enslaved, exploited or parasitised. Kafirs are described by the Arabic word ‘najis’ – literally ‘filth’. That’s why Muslim hatred of Kafirs is intrinsic to their ‘religion’. A Kafir doesn’t need to DO anything to offend a Muslim, his very existence is enough of an affront.

    9) The ethical system applies only to Muslims. Allah encourages rape, pillage, extortion and enslavement of non-Muslims. Morality does not extend beyond the global gang (ummah). Muslim ethics are the ethics of the Mafia.

    10) Allah’s followers are motivated by hatred, greed and lust. There is no love, mercy or compassion. Allah is vindictive, unpredictable, capricious and devious – “Allah leads astray whom he pleases”.

    11) The only religion NOT founded on The Golden Rule. Morality is based on Mohammed’s example. If Mohammed did it then it’s OK for all Muslims. Hence the encouragement of rape, pillage, subjugation and murder of non-believers and the institutionalised pedophilia prevalent throughout Muslim society (justified by Mohammed’s activities with Ayesha, his child sex-slave – see and listen to http://islamcomicbook.com/lyrics1.htm).

    12) All human relations are defined by Dominance/Subjugation. Muslims have schizoid inferiority/superiority complexes. (A well-balanced Muslim is one with a chip on each shoulder). They respect strength but despise compromise as weakness. Appeasement invites more aggression. The only political system which has been strong enough to subjugate Islam is Stalinism.

    13) Polygamy ensures alpha-males get extra women, leading to a shortage of women for the betas. Beta-males must either jerk off (a sin leading to hell), or form dog-packs and rape or capture kafir women as booty in a razzia, or else self-destruct in the presence of infidels then they can screw 72 mythical virgins in Allah’s bordello in the sky (see and listen to http://islamcomicbook.com/lyrics3.htm. Beta-males are often encouraged by their relatives to become suicide bombers because of the belief that such murderous ‘martyrs’ will be able to intercede with Allah to take 70 of their relatives to paradise with them.

    14) Lying and deception of infidels (taqiyya) is encouraged. This may take many forms, including outright lies, feigned moderation, and condemnation of terrorist attacks to the Kaffir while rejoicing with fellow Muslims. All Muslims need to regard themselves as victims of some group of Kafirs so they can harbor grudges against them and against Kafirs in general. Individuals may appear law-abiding and reasonable, but they are part of a totalitarian movement, and must be considered potential killers who can flip in an instant (SJS -’Sudden Jihad Syndrome’).

    15) Muslims are forbidden to befriend Kaffirs except for purposes of deceit or where conversion may be possible.

    16) The Koran is Allah’s final word and cannot be changed or challenged. To do so is punishable by death. Consequently, the Death Cult can never change or be reformed. The instructions to murder and rape infidels are just as valid now as the day they were written. Since Islam cannot be modernised, the Muslims are attempting to Islamise modernity. This requires spreading Islam in the West and simultaneously preventing any criticism of the cult by intimidation and PC legislation to curtail freedom of expression.

    17) Treaties and agreements with Kaffirs are made to be broken (Hudna). The word of a Muslim to a Kafir counts for nothing in the eyes of Allah. Allah is The Father Of Lies.

    18)  The world is divided between Dar-al-Islam and Dar-al-Harb (the domain of war, the Kufr lands). Muslims living in Dar-al-Harb must work to disrupt their host nations until these can be brought into Dar-al-Islam.

    19) Muslims have no obligation to their host nations and in fact are encouraged to parasitise them. Welfare fraud, identity theft, forgery etc are endemic in Western Muslim populations, and serious crime against Kaffirs is regarded as normal and justified. Extortion rackets against Kafirs are mandated by the Koran (‘jizya’ is the Arabic term for ‘protection money’ payable by Jews and Christians to Muslims).

    20) The attack on the host nation isn’t just against its religion and economy, but is aimed at its very cultural identity. Islam is a complete system, including a culture, which Muslims regard as superior (despite all evidence to the contrary) to other cultures. Muslims are therefore required to destroy the symbols of ‘Jahiliya’ (sometimes sp. Jahiliyya) – non-Muslim culture. In the East this has included destruction of Hindu temples and Christian churches and replacement with mosques, and destruction of Buddhist artwork and universities and replacement with heaps of rubble. This process of cultural replacement is now beginning in the West.

    PLEASE NOTE: THE REPRODUCTION OF THE ABOVE INDICATES NOTHING ABOUT MY PERSONAL VIEWS ON ISLAM. IT IS HERE BECAUSE LAST TIME I CHECKED, LEGALLY, WE STILL HAVE FREE SPEECH IN BRITAIN (WILDERS’ RECENT EXPERIENCE OF THE GOOD OLD BRITISH WELCOME NOTWITHSTANDING.)


    The pictures at Cranmer’s page,  about Anjem Choudary’s call for “execution for the Pope”, were worth reproducing too.

     

    “The day after Pope Benedict XVI apologised for the consequences of his remarks against Islam, a British Muslim leader stated that the Pope should ‘face execution’ for his comments. Outside Westminster Cathedral, Anjem Choudary of Al-Ghurabaa told demonstrators: ‘Those who insulted Islam should be subject to capital punishment.’ He added: ‘Muslims take their religion very seriously, and non-Muslims must appreciate their religious sentiments, and must also understand that there may be serious consequences if you insult Islam and the Prophet.’”


    popehelljesusslaveallahcurse

     

    Pleasant lot, aren’t they?




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    98 Responses to “Twenty Facts About Islam Every Infidel Should Know”

    1. Why the constitutionally racist BNP is a Threat « Tony Blair Says:

      [...] Saturday I noticed I was receiving dozens of views of one of my older posts – Twenty Facts About Islam Every Infidel Should Know. They were being referred to my site from The British National Party’s [...]

    2. Blair (the baptist or the eunuch?) pulls them in at HTB « Tony Blair Says:

      [...] ONE major religion seems to want nothing to do with bringing faiths closer together if the writer quoted here is accurate. Its aim is semingly for all of us to see the world from its perspective. And it has heavy-handed [...]

    3. zara Says:

      this is rubbishhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh all these pictures are propaganda against islam……………islam = PEACE
      KEEP THIS IN UR MIND PEACE……….

      • keeptonyblairforpm Says:

        YOU, zara, YOU are talking RUBBISH.

        Any pictures you refer to – presumably through links in the post above – are NOT mad-up, invented, photoshop jobs. They are REAL.

        They have been seen in my captial city – London – and all over the world.

        If you are so sure ISLAM is a religion of peace, then disown those followers of Islam who threaten and denounce Christianity, the Pope, the Queen, democracy, the west.

        Don’t come all the poor victim with me. I, for one, have had enough. You will be hard pushed to find ANY non-Muslims in the world holding up placards like these

        There are also plenty of sites around listing some of the issues people have with Islam, such as this one:

        http://islamizationwatch.blogspot.com/2009/07/islam-is-not-religion-of-peace.html

        PROPAGANDA?

        Do us a favour.

    4. Julie Says:

      Zara,

      unfortunately,this is no propaganda here.

      We are aware that the Quran for exmaple states that: “If you kill an innocent man it is as though you have killed the entire humanity” and that suicide and murder are desrcribed as mortal sins.

      BUT………!!!!!!!!

      the Quran also says:

      “Kill the mushriqeen (pagans, polytheists,kuffars) where ever you find them.”

      and

      “O believers, take not Jews and Christians as friends; they are friends of each other. Those of you who make them his friends is one of them. God does not guide an unjust people”………

      Not very open-minded towards the “others”,heh?
      The problem of Islam is that for many Muslims an “infidel” is “no innocent man”.And therefore the “peacful” verses of the Quran become kind of invalid.

      Sad but true.

      • keeptonyblairforpm Says:

        And Anjem Choudary, he who feels NO attachment to Britain, but sponges off our freedoms while brainwashing the gullible, said a month after the 7/7 London terror attacks – “Only Muslims are innocent”.

        Until people like Zara denounce such as Choudary does she expect us to believe and accept Choudary or even her before we believe and RESPECT Tony Blair?

        I will NEVER respect Choudary, unless this destructive infidel repents!

    5. Julie Says:

      Of course we are expected to believe and accept these guys.Probably even respect oO

      We are always expected to accept everything concerning Islam, right BlairSupporter???The building of mosques on our streets, preachers of hatred on our streets, the teaching of Islam in our schools.What you have.

      But of course we cannot expect an equal response.How presumptious!

      Right now I do not see how we will ever witness the building of a church in an Islamic country.

      They should stop being part of the problem and start being part of the solution!!!

      • keeptonyblairforpm Says:

        Julie,

        There ARE Christian churches in some Islamic countries (where there is a long-standing Christian minority.) But they are often subjected to violent attacks as here in Iraq.

        The ISLAMIC Republic of Iran also has a long history of Christianity but in recent years many churchmen have been murdered, many Christians have emigrated to the west and churches are closing. However they may find ongoing political unrest may soon change this.

        Saudi Arabia, on the other hand, completely forbids anything Christian. So don’t wear a crucifix if you go there, Julie.

        See also Christianity in Islamic countries.

        But I DO take your point about us going to a mainly Islamic land and building a church and a whole community, as has been happening here for decades from the Muslim angle. If we tried it in many fundamentalist Muslim lands we’d probably return to the west with one limb less than we started out. IF we returned at all.

        Since I am more concerned, perhaps selfishly, for the way MY country and Europe is heading via our “ultra liberalism”, all I want and expect right now is for our western governments to step in and limit this spread. And to stop treating Muslims as “untouchables”.

        Even if 98% of Muslims are good, honest caring people, which they probably are, they have NO right to expect our culture to be consumed or even, to put it bluntly, to contain THEIRS in its fundamental form in our lands.

        If you come here for western freeedoms, you are part of the west, with allegiance to the country and people who have adopted you.

        If you don’t feel this – GET OUT.

    6. Julie Says:

      Thanks for your advice BlairSupporter.But will hardly happen though I do not even own a crucifix ;)

      So there are churches is Islamic countries but my question was if WE WILL EVER WITNESS the building of one. I mean not in the sense of history (the churches you are referring to have probably been built looooong time ago) but NOW or in the FUTURE.I can’t recall hearing about the opening of a church in an Islamic country,can you?

      • keeptonyblairforpm Says:

        No, you’re right, Julie.

        I can’t recall a new Christian Church being opened recently. Though I do recall some Iraqi Muslims helping to re-build one that had been destroyed by the usual insurgents of whatever “faith”.

        The reason the Iraqis were helping? Their gratitude for the west returning their country to a state of democracy after 30 years of Saddam.

        We don’t hear much of this kind of thing in the western press, of course. It’s against their agendas. I believe I saw it at Michael Yon’s site.

        This is one of Yon’s pages on Christianity in Iraq, but not the story I’m looking for. It’s there somewhere, I’m sure.

        This is an example of Muslims in Baghdad helping with a Christian Church, and a great picture:

        http://www.michaelyon-online.com/thanks-and-praise.htm

        How’s this for a quote:

        The Iraqis asked me to convey a message of thanks to the American people. ” Thank you, thank you,” the people were saying. One man said, “Thank you for peace.” Another man, a Muslim, said “All the people, all the people in Iraq, Muslim and Christian, is brother.” The men and women were holding bells, and for the first time in memory freedom rang over the ravaged land between two rivers. (Videotape to follow.)

        [Note: To read this dispatch in German, please click here.]

        P.S. BREAKING NEWS:

        But while we have this kind of outrage – CLEARLY showing that there IS a Clash of Cultures, how can we expect to make progress?

        Especially when Muslim kills Muslim AGAIN as in this breaking news item from Baghdad.

    7. www.KelloggsKorner.com - Is Islam the American Reigion? Says:

      [...] http://keeptonyblairforpm.wordpress.com/2009/02/13/twenty-facts-about-islam-every-infidel-should-kno… [...]

    8. Kocher Says:

      Dear Brother ,

      I can understand the disguest you have about islam.. but for a change try to be one to understand and then you can realize what you have been posting or supporting.

      1) “Islam” means “peace through the submission to God”.

      2) “Muslim” means “anyone or anything that submits itself to the will of God”.

      3) Islam is not a cult. Its followers number over 1.5 billion worldwide. Along with Judaism and Christianity, it is considered to be one of the three Abrahamic traditions.

      4) There are five pillars of practice in Islam. These practices must be undertaken with the best of effort in order to be considered a true Muslim: A) Shahadah – declaration of faith in the oneness of God and that Muhammad is the last prophet of God. B) Formal prayer five times a day. C) Fasting during the daylight hours in the month of Ramadan. D) Poor-due “tax” – 2.5% of one’s savings given to the needy at the end of each year. E) Pilgrimage to Mecca at least once, if physically and financially able.

      5) There are six articles of faith in Islam. These are the basic beliefs that one must have in order to be considered a true Muslim. They are belief in: A) the One God. B) all the prophets of God. C) the original scriptures revealed to Prophets Moses, David, Jesus, and Muhammad. D) the angels. E) the Day of Judgment and the Hereafter. F) the divine decree (or destiny).

      6) Islam is a complete way of life that governs all facets of life: moral, spiritual, social, political, economical, intellectual, etc.

      7) Islam is one of the fastest growing religions in the world. To become Muslim, a person of any race or culture must say a simple statement, the shahadah, that bears witness to the belief in the One God and that Prophet Muhammad was the last prophet of God.

      8) “Allah” is an Arabic word that means “God”. Muslims also believe that “Allah” is the personal name of God.

      9) Allah is not the God of Muslims only. He is the God of all people and all creation. Just because people refer to God using different terms does not mean that they are different gods. Spanish people refer to God as “Dios” and French people refer to God as “Dieu”, yet they are all the same God. Interestingly, most Arab Jews and Arab Christians refer to God as “Allah”. And the word Allah in Arabic appears on the walls of many Arab churches.

      10) The Islamic concept of God is that He is loving, merciful, and compassionate. But Islam also teaches that He is just and swift in punishment. Nevertheless, Allah once said to Prophet Muhammad, “My mercy prevails over my wrath.” Islam teaches a balance between fear and hope, protecting one from both complacency and despair.

      11) Muslims believe that God has revealed 99 of His names (or attributes) in the Holy Qur’an. It is through these names that one can come to know the Creator. A few of these names are: the All-Merciful, the All-Knower, the Protector, the Provider, the Near, the First, the Last, the Hidden, and the Source of Peace.

      12) Muslims believe in and acknowledge all the prophets of old, from Adam to Jesus. Muslims believe that they brought the message of peace and submission (islam) to different peoples at different times. Muslims also believe that these prophets were “muslims” because they submitted their wills to God.

      13) Muslims neither worship Muhammad nor pray through him. Muslims solely worship the unseen and Omniscient Creator, Allah.

      14) Muslims accept the original unaltered Torah (the Gospel of Moses) and the original Bible (the Gospel of Jesus) since they were revealed by God. However, none of those original scriptures are in existence today, in their entirety. Therefore, Muslims follow the subsequent, final, and preserved revelation of God, the Holy Qur’an.

      15) The Holy Qur’an was not authored by Muhammad. It was authored by God, revealed to Muhammad, and written into physical form by his companions.

      16) The Holy Qur’an has no flaws or contradictions. The original Arabic scriptures have never been changed or tampered with.

      17) Actual seventh century Qur’ans, complete and intact, are on display in museums in Turkey and many other places around the world.

      18) If all Qur’ans in the world today were burned and destroyed, the original Arabic would still remain. This is because millions of Muslims, called Hafiz (or “preservers”) have memorized the text letter for letter from beginning to end, every word and syllable. Also, chapters from the Qur’an are precisely recited from memory by every Muslim in each of the five daily prayers.

      19) Muslims do not believe in the concept of “vicarious atonement” but rather believe in the law of personal responsibility. Islam teaches that each person is responsible for his or her own actions. On the Day of Judgment Muslims believe that every person will be resurrected and will have to answer to God for their every word, thought, and deed. Consequently, a practicing Muslim is always striving to be righteous.

      20) Islam was not spread by the sword. It was spread by the word (Islamic teachings) and the example of its followers. Islam teaches that there is no compulsion in religion (the Holy Qur’an 2:256 and 10:99).

      21) Terrorism, unjustified violence and the killing of innocent people are absolutely forbidden in Islam. Islam is a way of life that is meant to bring peace to a society, whether its people are Muslim or not. The extreme actions of those who claim to be Muslim may be, among other things, a result of their ignorance or uncontrolled anger. Tyrant rulers and those who commit acts of terrorism in the name of Islam are simply not following Islam. These people are individuals with their own views and political agendas. Fanatical Muslims are no more representative of the true Islamic teachings than Timothy McVeigh or David Koresh are of Christianity. Extremism and fanaticism is a problem that is common to all religious groups. Anyone who thinks that all Muslims are terrorists should remember that the famous boxer Muhammad Ali, perhaps the most celebrated person of our era, is a practicing Muslim.

      22) The word “jihad” does not mean “holy war”. Instead, it means the inner struggle that one endures in trying to submit their will to the will of God. Some Muslims may say they are going for “jihad” when fighting in a war to defend themselves or their fellow Muslims, but they only say this because they are conceding that it will be a tremendous struggle. But there are many other forms of jihad which are more relevant to the everyday life of a Muslim such as the struggles against laziness, arrogance, stinginess, or the struggle against a tyrant ruler or against the temptation of Satan, or against one’s own ego, etc.

      23) Women are not oppressed in Islam. Any Muslim man that oppresses a woman is not following Islam. Among the many teachings of Prophet Muhammad that protected the rights and dignity of women is his saying, “…the best among you are those who treat their wives well.” (Tirmidhi)

      24) Islam grants women numerous rights in the home and in society. Among them are the right to earn money, to financial support, to an education, to an inheritance, to being treated kindly, to vote, to a dowry, to keep their maiden name, to worship in a mosque, etc., etc.

      25) Muslim women wear the head-covering (hijab) in fulfillment of God’s decree to dress modestly. From a practical standpoint, it serves to identify one as attempting to follow God in daily life and, therefore, protects women from unwanted advances from men. This type of modest dress has been worn by righteous women throughout history. Prominent examples are traditional Catholic Nuns, Mother Teresa and the Virgin Mary, mother of Jesus.

      26) Arranged marriages are allowed in Islam but are not required. Whereas “forced” marriages, usually stemming from cultural practice, are forbidden. Divorce is permissible, however, reconciliation is what is most encouraged. But if there are irreconcilable differences then Islam permits a fair and just divorce.

      27) Islam and the “Nation of Islam” are two different religions. Islam is a religion for all races and enjoins the worship of the one unseen God who, orthodox Muslims believe, never took human form. The “Nation”, on the other hand, is a movement geared towards non-whites and teaches that God appeared in the form of Fard Muhammad in 1930 and that Elijah Muhammad (a man who died in 1975) was a prophet of God. These beliefs clearly contradict the basic Islamic theology outlined in the Qur’an. The followers of “the Nation” adhere to some Islamic principles that are mixed with many other teachings that are alien to Islam. To better understand the difference between the two, read about Malcolm X, his pilgrimage to Mecca and his subsequent comments to the media. Islam teaches equality amongst all the races (Holy Qur’an 49:13).

      28) All Muslims are not Arab. Islam is a universal religion and way of life which includes followers from all races of people. There are Muslims in and from virtually every country in the world. Arabs only constitute about 20% of Muslims worldwide. Indonesia has the largest concentration of Muslims with over 120 million.

      29) In the five daily prayers, Muslims face the Kaaba in Mecca, Arabia. It is a cube-shaped stone structure that was originally built by Prophet Adam and later rebuilt by Prophet Abraham. Muslims believe that the Kaaba was the first house of worship on Earth dedicated to the worship of one god. Muslims do not worship the Kaaba. It serves as a central focal point for Muslims around the world, unifying them in worship and symbolizing their common belief, spiritual focus and direction. Interestingly, the inside of the Kaaba is empty.

      30) The hajj is a simultaneous pilgrimage to the Kaaba made by millions of Muslims each year. It is performed to commemorate the struggles of Abraham, Ismail and Hagar in submitting their wills to God.

      • keeptonyblairforpm Says:

        Hello Kocher,

        Thanks for your comment and your explanations. If they raise more questions than they answer I will leave others to judge. I know what I think.

        I can understand the disguest you have about islam.. but for a change try to be one to understand and then you can realize what you have been posting or supporting.

        It’s a start when someone like you says they can “understand”.

        But PLEASE don’t tell me that I need to understand and THEN I will realise what I have been posting. I do find that condescension irritating. There are easy responses to that, such as “faith believers must realise that the non-believers of this word are not happy with religion being the main cause of world wars.” Etc etc … but that example will suffice.

        I used the above information from another source, by the way. I did not invent it.

        There is a major issue for those of us who do NOT come from or embrace a “faith” position. If one is not convinced there is a God, how on earcth is one supposed to take seriously the “truths” emanating from those who are convinced? Especially when those ‘truths’ are at variance and some of those (a minority, true) insist on an interpretation of their ‘good books’ which leads, has led and will lead to death of believers and unbelievers?

        People who take your approach need to understand that for many of us (who are quite content with expecting no afterlife in which to discover “the truth”) it is an easy opt-out, given ALL our ignorance, to dismiss these criticisms as a failure to understand.

        Understanding goes BOTH ways.

        Rather than analyse and respond to each of your points (my time is limited right now) I will make this one only:

        It is clear to me that the major Abrahamic religions DO NOT believe in the same God.

        Clear as day.

        Why they insist that they do is, as my vicar used to say about God, “beyond our comprehension”.

        Personally I prefer understanding WITHOUT dependence or adherence to the ancient scribes of people who thought the world was flat and the sun circled around us.

        And, by the way, the minute ANYONE tells me that all people are Muslims that is a BIG BLACK MARK against them.

        All people are born FREE-thinking beings. Life, society and religion impinge upon that freedom, sometimes for good, sometimes for ill.

    9. Kocher Says:

      Dear Brother ,

      Yes you are true in your approch of “understanding WITHOUT dependence ….scribes of people who thought the world was flat..” but did you know that the quran gave an explanation to the shape of the earth as mentioned below :

      The Quran mentions the actual shape of the earth in the following verse: “And we have made the earth egg shaped”. [Al-Quran 79:30]

      The Arabic word Dahaha means egg shaped. It also means an expanse. Dahaha is derived from Duhiya which specifically refers to the egg of an ostrich which is geo-spherical in shape, exactly like the shape of the earth.

      Thus the Quran and modern established science are in perfect harmony.

      and this explanation comes years before it was scientifically proven.. and not only this there are many other scientific facts now being discovered which have been mentioned in Quran thousands of years ago..

      Also i do agree that is there is no complusion in Islam .. and Islam recoginises and supports right to practice islam or not.. and you have full rights to use your freedom.. But whats wrong in some one making efforts to find out about our existance in this world…

      Have and nice day.

    10. Kocher Says:

      Dear Brother ,

      I am sorry that our view points do not match….but just to make you know the fact that like me i have known several people who are following islam and are happy and living in complete harmony with people of other faith with no conflicts… i dont what still makes you feel so bad of islam and you see no logic or science in islam.. yes may be you have your own reasons not to believe but i have personally seen many facts to believe that islam is the best religion but yes ofcouse i do agree there are few followers you do not follow islam as such but have their extermist vision of it which .. but allaha knows the best..

      Just a request i have with you for a moment let go the old notions and investigate not by looking at the followers but investigate about islam what quran and hadis has to say about islam.

      Just as we have few brothers in islam who act like extremest you seems to hate islam with such view.. just have a moderate view and you will be looking things in a different way.

      And just a food for thought about your notion you have about barabaric islam .. just think for a moment what would you do to a person who commits rape to your sister or mother … and what will you do to a person who has made your son end his life by supplying him drugs…
      the answer would be you would like to kill such person unless you are so open minded that you will ignore the fact and let that person committ the same act with your family or some one else family..

      I am not here promoting islam but i have seen all the laws prescribed in islam and they are all pointing towards a peaceful world.. yes there are few bad elements in any community and you seems to look islam form there prospective..

      Rgds,

      • keeptonyblairforpm Says:

        Kocher,

        As before EVERYTHING you suggest is good about Islam makes my stomach churn.

        But before I go on – I actually DO take a moderate view of MODERATE people (in any religion or none.) What I take great exception to is being told by proponents of Islam that IT is better placed, a better judge, a more balanced body to decide than ANY other, religious or not.

        And THAT is exactly what it insists. Sharia law IS Islam, and Islam IS Sharia law. You show me an Islamic country where this is not the case, even if their version of Islam is comparatively mild.

        I wil have none of it here in Britian and any government which allows it to creep in by the back door has lost my support, such as Brown’s. Ditto the Conservatives and the Liberal Democrats who both refuse to even murmur a word of caution about his creeping law into British legal foundations. So, I am left voteless right now, as there is not one major party or political leader securing my vote on this most fundamental question of law and justice.

        For me DEMOCRATIC SECULARISM without overpowering influence from any religion is the Way, the Truth and the Light (as it were.)

        Religion confuses and Islam for one compulses.

        NO, NO, NO. Not for me or free-thinking people without strong adherence to religion of any sort.

        Having said that I am very attached to British (Christian) traditions of liberty, even if at times they seem to have a self-destruct button. That tradition and its accumulation of learning over centuries has largely made the west what it is.

        Allah might know best in YOUR book as to why we have such creatures as the Airline plotters who were convicted yesterday in London – (ALL MUSLIMS) – but I do not acquiesce to Allah or to any other unknown entity. That phrase “Allah/God knows best” is a cop-out and a refusal to take mortal responsibility, imho. We are all only mortal, as far as we ALL know.

        You have a point about what one would wish to do about someone who raped or murdered one’s nearest and dearest. THAt reaction is normal and to be expected. And it’s one of the reasons we have laws – SECULAR, NON-RELIGIOUS laws. To avoid mob rule and or the “authorities” reacting with barbaric ruthlessneess in order to discourage others. (As happens in Iran and many Islamic states, and as you evidently approve of.)

        THIS is completely at odds with what we in the west call “human rights” or the rule of law. I have my issues over human rights and how it seems to protect people who behave inhumanly. I DO think they need to be modified, but not so that we can string up the airline plotters from Tower Bridge, only so that we can be sure their “life” sentences mean “life”, if that’s what they are sentenced to. Also, of course, so that the law-abiding majority of people feel that the Human Rights Act protects them, the law-abiding majority at least as much as it does the suspected terrorist. People do not feel that right now.

        So yes, from my vantage point I am NOT in favour of barbaric punishments for ANYONE, even the terrorists who meant to kill thousands of us in several planes over the Atlantic.

        If that makes my beliefs compare badly with yours, one of us needs to do some thinking on our humanity. But one of us might fall back on – “Allah knows best”.

        Punishment in today’s modern societies is not supposed to be revenge but retribution. And secular laws work out what “retribution” means in a civilised society. NOT, REPEAT, NOT ancient religions.

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